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Showing posts with label JEE. Show all posts
Showing posts with label JEE. Show all posts

Tuesday, July 5, 2011

Will JEE fill up more seats this year

Last month, I had written about a judgement of Andhra Pradesh High Court which directed JEE to do something to fill up more seats this year. The blog article is here. Last year, 443 seats remained vacant because there were not sufficient number of qualified candidates available to fill them up (1 OBC, 7 SC, 232 ST, and 203 PD - Physically challenged). There were an additional 781 seats that went vacant because selected students did not join (501 General, 109 OBC, 100 SC, 44 ST, and 27 PD). So the total number of vacant seats were 1224. The court was not perturbed by 443 seats. It did not want IITs to lower their standard (and in any case, most of these would result in the corresponding seat in the preparatory course). But the court was seriously perturbed by the 781 seats which went vacant due to students not joining after paying the initial fee.

In the beginning of June 2011, there was a meeting of Directors of all IITs to discuss the court order. They decided to have a 3rd round of seat allocation. Last year, there were only two rounds of seat allocation.

I have a problem with this. If you read the court order, it mildly suggests that perhaps another round of seat allocation will help. In that sense, the Directors have followed the court order and the matter is over. But the court order says much more than obliquely suggesting the third round. Read this:


"It baffles me to note that academicians and administrators of the premier institutions like IITs cannot find a much better process of admission than stopping with the second round of counseling, come what may be the vacancy position in the institutions. It is time that the scholarly inputs are borrowed and implemented at the earliest so that a national waste will not get repeated. I hope and trust that the remedial measures are put in place before the next academic year’s counseling is undertaken."


It is clear that the court is concerned about the vacant seats and wants JEE to do whatever is feasible to reduce the number of vacancies, and some oblique references to 3rd round were just a suggestion, and not the order of the court.

It is clear to me and must have been clear to Directors (and Chairpersons of JEE at different IITs) that a third round of seat allocation will not result in any significant drop in the number of vacant seats. (If you read my previous article on this, I had said even before the meeting of the Directors that the third round will not be effective unless it is conducted after the beginning of the semester. So it is not something that I am saying now with better information on this year's process.)

My contention is that by doing the 3rd round of seat allocation, and taking no other step for reducing the vacancies, JEE is not following the spirit of the court order, as the 3rd round could not possibly solve the problem which the court has ordered it to solve. If there was too little time to come up with the solution for this year, JEE should have gone back to the court and requested for time till next year. Or it should have challenged the court decision. By doing neither, it has accepted the court decision, but still not implemented it in spirit.

Friday, June 3, 2011

High Court Directs JEE to find ways to fill vacant seats in IITs

Recently, the Honorable High Court of Andhra Pradesh has passed an order directing JEE to find ways to fill up the vacant seats in 15 IITs, IT BHU, and ISM Dhanbad. Here is a link to download a copy of the order.

Since only the judgment is on the web, it is difficult to know the exact argument of all stake holders, but what I can make out from the judgment is the following.

The petitioner is a student of ISM Dhanbad, who got admission to the Institute in 2010 after passing the Joint Entrance Examination. When the results of the first round of counseling were announced, she was allotted MSc (Chemistry) in ISM Dhanbad. She paid her fee, etc., as per the JEE procedure. If you recall, last year, there was an error in the counseling. The Counseling software had not taken into account the results of the Architecture aptitude test. When this error was detected and corrected, it turned out that the course allotment of several students had to be canceled. This student was one of them. There were 52 such students. She got lucky that at least she could get a program allotted. She was assigned MSc (Mathematics and Computing). By the only 41 students could get some course in the second round. Eleven students had no where to go (even though as we will see later, there were hundreds of seats vacant in the system).

After this the details are sketchy. She apparently wanted a better branch. ISM Dhanbad refused saying that the branch changes will be done after 2nd semester, based on performance in the 1st year. However, she noticed that the rules in ISM Dhanbad did not allow too many people to get branch change. The rules said a student is not allowed to leave a branch, if that would cause the strength of the program to become less than 50%. A very large number of students who had been offered admission to ISM Dhanbad had not joined, leaving more than 250 vacancies in the Institute. This meant that many programs would have less than 50% seats filled up. Or the number of branch changes that would be permitted would be extremely few. So, she appealed to High Court that JEE should have filled up those huge number of vacant seats in all the institutes put together, and if such a thing was done in 2010, she would have got a better program to begin with.

JEE responded to the writ petition by arguing that it is not possible to keep doing multiple rounds of admission, since the classes have to start at some time. And IITs have such a high standard of academics that doing admission even a few days into the semester would be harmful to the quality of education.

The court asked for information on the number of vacant seats after the students had joined various institutes. It turned out that the number of seats vacant were 8% of the total seats available through JEE. The court has said that based on JEE's argument, if there were a small number of seats vacant, it would have accepted the situation. But the argument cannot justify such a large number of vacant seats, particularly when JEE could have started the admission process a bit earlier, and tried to incorporate another round of admission process.

For 2010 admissions, the court has asked ISM Dhanbad to allot any of the vacant seats to the student in question before doing its branch changes. And for 2011 admissions, it has asked JEE to do whatever it deems fit to make sure that such a large number of seats are not left vacant.

This is an excellent judgment which will make JEE more student friendly. However, there is one aspect of the whole admission process which has not been clearly understood by the court. If JEE were to do a 3rd round of counseling, it would still leave 8% of the seats vacant, unless the 3rd round was done AFTER the semester started.

Let us understand why third round prior to the semester would not help. The reasons for vacant seats is NOT that students who are offered seats do not accept it. Such a number is rather small after the 2nd round. The reason for vacant seats is that students accept the admission offer by paying whatever amount is needed, and then never inform JEE that they would like to withdraw. They just don't show up on the campus on the 1st day of the semester. So you can have any number of rounds prior to the semester beginning, and you still wouldn't know how many people won't show up on the appointed day.

So what is the solution. There are, in fact, several solutions possible.

The obvious one that Central Counseling Board (which does counseling for all NITs based on AIEEE ranks) makes use of is to offer admission after the semester has started. The assumption with which CCB works is that teaching is unimportant and even if a student misses a few days, nah a few weeks, may be half the semester, it is still ok for him/her to get admission. The underlying assumption appears to be that teaching in most such places is so poor that it is perhaps better for the student to not face such teaching :-) But JEE can't make such an assumption, and it has correctly argued in the court that late admissions will result in poorer quality of education.

The second solution is to admit more students than the number of seats that you have. This is the solution that every single country in the world follows (other than India, of course). In India, we believe, we are very unique. Our problems are very unique. So nothing that works in the rest of the world will work in India. (Of course, the corollary is that what does not work in the rest of the world will also not work in India.) And, therefore, we must do opposite of what the rest of the world does, and consider our seats as sacrosanct.

But, if somehow JEE can come out of this anti-rest-of-the-world feeling, then what they may do is to look at historical data about the percentage of students who don't join a particular institute, and admit that many extra students to each institute. So if we have 500 unreserved seats (since we need to do this category wise), and 10% students did not join on an average in the last 5 years, then may be I can admit 8% more (to be on the conservative side - I don't want to exceed my target strength, not by large number, anyway). So, we shall admit 540, and if 10% did not join, I will still have 486 students as opposed to 450 in the current scenario. Yes, there is a risk that I might have 510 students. But the question is that if you have capacity to deal with 500 students properly and in the best way that you want to deal with them, would you rather have 450 students and waste a significant investment, or would you rather live with a very small probability of 510 students in some year (and hence the quality of education for that batch presumably going down).

Of course, the immediate question will be what branch to assign to these extra students. It is assumed that the students will give a choice during the counseling that they are willing to be admitted to an Institute without any assignment of a program. So someone, for example, could give a higher preference for IITB-NONE compared to ISM-Dhanbad-Mining-BTech. On the joining date at an institute, we will know how many students in each category have joined. Based on this data, we know vacancies in each program in each category. We can do an internal branch change of each student based on their preferences in JEE counseling, and by this process, the unassigned students will get some program assigned to them. It is assumed that when they opt for unassigned seat, they are actually willing to take any program in the Institute. So if they have not put in all the choices during the JEE counseling, they could be given a random seat.

The problem will come when the number of vacancies (or people not joining) is less than the number of students admitted against unassigned seats. In such a case, each institute will take its own decision on how to assign programs to these people. The easiest will be to increase the number of seats in each program by same proportion. If there are 10 programs, and there are 10 unassigned students, increase 1 seat in each program.

This has a downside. Most of the JEE selected candidates - while they may have solved hugely complex mathematical problems in JEE, they will now claim that they don't understand probability and statistics. They will make statements like this: If you have 500 seats and you are admitting 8% extra, then theoretically you could have 540 students. It means that at least in such a case, you will somehow manage 540 students. Then why not admit 540 students anyway. The only answer to this question is that if you do not understand probability and statistics, then you don't deserve to be in an IIT. We will take your name off the JEE merit list.

There is a solution number 3. This is to somehow have an incentive for the student to inform JEE in advance that he has decided not to take admission. What could be such an incentive. How about returning some of the money that you charge them. Right now, JEE asks for Rs. 40,000 to be deposited for accepting admission, and whether you decide to withdraw the next day or 2 weeks later, you don't back a single paisa. If we could have a sliding scale. If you withdraw within a day, we will give you back most of the money, if you withdraw within a week, we will deduct some more, and so on. Then there is an incentive for people to decide fast and communicate that decision to JEE.

The problem with this scheme is that the Government has mandated that anyone leaving the program till the day of beginning of the semester, has to be refunded the entire amount (except a token processing fee of Rs. 1,000). IITs currently are below the radar of the government, and don't get hauled up when they don't give any refund. But if they start giving refund, they will have to follow this policy of 100% refund. This policy of 100% refund has played havoc with admission process in India. Ever since this rule has been made in 2007, most admissions are now done after the beginning of the semester in most colleges across the country. To know more about it, you may want to read one of my old blog article on refund rules. Strangely, most students and parents believe that this refund rule is very good, not realizing how it has destroyed education in NITs, and other good institutes, and how it is actually making more money for private colleges, since most admissions are now happening after the beginning of the semester, where the refunds are not controlled by this rule anyway.

So, IITs may have to argue with MHRD to junk this rule and come with an alternate scheme with gradations for refund depending on how many days before the semester the student is withdrawing.

Of course, there is a 4th solution. IIT Directors can agree that after the 2nd round of counseling, each Institute can decide on its own whether they want to do more admissions, and do those admissions in whatever way they deem fit (increase ad hocism). Of course, JEE could go to Supreme Court and not do anything on the ground this year.

The right thing to do is to do both 2nd and 3rd solutions. Admit additional students, and have a graded refund policy. Doing these things together will clean up the admission process not just in IITs, but in all engineering colleges, since they will then be able to do the same thing.

In my opinion, this high court ruling is a godsend to IITs to improve their admission process without political interference or too much media glare. After all, they will be following the legal mandate. I hope they will do something that will have a positive impact on all engineering admissions throughout the country.

In the end, I will like to just give out the vacant seats last year in old IITs, BHU and ISM in unreserved and OBC categories (combined). IITB (2/663), IITD (5/640), IITK (8/622), IITM (10/630), IIT-GHY (20/442), IIT-KGP (54/1008), IIT-R (114/866), IT-BHU (146/785), ISM (213/760).

Wednesday, May 25, 2011

A Guide to JEE Counseling 2011

Congratulations for performing admirably in the toughest rat race in the world, and soon, you will be one of us, the IITians. I am sure you are more thrilled on 25th May, 2011, than on 2nd April, 2011. (Don't remember that date. Well, when you were studying for JEE, the Men in Blue got a fake trophy called the ICC World Cup.)

But the problem with rat races is that you are never satisfied unless you are number one, and there can only be a single number one. So my first advice, you can become a cat only if you stop being a rat. Accept your result with grace. Being in top 10,000 in a country of 1.2 billion people (yes, they did count you even though you were hiding yourself amongst the books in that tiny space in Kota) is not a mean achievement, even if you believe that you ought to have topped the exam.

A few words about me. I am a Professor of Computer Science and Engineering at IIT Kanpur, and have been here for most part of the last 17 years. I also studied at IIT Kanpur (BTech/CSE/1986), so have some appreciation for both sides of the classroom, though my experience as a student is too far back in the history. I have taught at IIT Bombay for a semester. I have had joint research projects with IIT Delhi. I am a Guest Professor at IIT Gandhinagar. I have visited a few other IITs as well. I have friends, collaborators, and acquaintances in pretty much all IITs. Here is the link to my webpage, if you are interested in knowing more about me.

Before I go further, let me claim the standard disclaimers. I have no association with JEE. I am not their spokesperson. They did not pay me to write this note, and indeed they would be happier if I didn't write this note. If any of my views here match the views of anyone in JEE or for that matter anyone in any IIT, that is purely co-incidental. What ever I say, take it simply as unsolicited advice, but take your own decisions. Do not hold me responsible for your decisions. If you agree with any suggestion on this page, follow it at your own risk.

While I have taken reasonable care to give correct data and processes, I take no responsibility for correctness of any piece of information on this page. Before you take a decision based on information provided on this page, please check from authentic source. Here is the link to JEE Website. This would have a link to JEE Counseling Online Portal, and that page would have links to all participating Institutes.

OK. Let us get back to what you have to do. You should be getting a Counseling Brochure from JEE explaining the various steps. But basically, your next step is to go online and register yourself in the JEE Counseling Online Portal. If you don't have Internet access at home, go to an Internet cafe. My advice to you, DO NOT share your password with others, and the password should be such that it is difficult to guess. After you have made JEE richer by One Thousand rupees, and also sent all sorts of sundry documents to JEE, you can use the portal to fill the choices.

So now, we come to the main point. How should you decide the order of those choices. Sorry, no simple answers. And let me warn you right in the beginning. This is a long note, at the end of which you will realize that I am not telling you the order of your choices anyway. So, if you are reading this to know what choices you should fill on that portal, you may cut your losses and stop here. (This is how we teach at IIT. We give 55 minutes long lectures, at the end of which you don't get the answer to the question that we started with. You only get hints on how to proceed to get that answer.)

JEE has an official stand on your choices. All IITs (and non-IITs) are equal. All programs are equal. But the egalitarianism stops here. I wish they also believed that all students are equal and hence any student can get any IIT and any program. But, alas, we live in an unfair world, full of discrimination. IITs will discriminate on the basis of your performance, not just at the admission stage, but till you manage to break free and get out with a degree. We will stamp you with a dreaded word called Cumulative Performance Index (CPI). (If you don't understand this word, read Chetan Bhagat's "Five Point Someone.")

Oops, I digress again. If you believe in official words of wisdom, your life will be very simple. Since all programs and all IITs are equal, the best way to choose is to draw lots. Write down codes for each program on a separate piece of paper. Put all such small pieces in a box. Take one slip out at a time, and write down the code in that slip on the JEE Counseling Online Portal.

Did not like that. You have company. No one in India believes officialdom.

So what do you do. First of all, ask yourself whether you are really very keen on a particular discipline. I don't expect many 12th class students to know their interests, particularly because you would have been terribly busy over the last couple of years in preparing for JEE. But some students do.

Sometimes it is a role model in the family or neighbourhood. Sometimes, you had an excellent teacher in Physics, Maths, or Chemistry, and hence that subject is what you want to pursue for your career. And, of course, there are many who always dreamt of becoming a computer scientist. Their first toy was a computer. Their class fellows in school envied them because they have 1000 friends on facebook. And if they did not have to study for JEE, they would have certainly made their parents proud by winning the state level championship on "AOE." All this justifies their passion in Computer Science. And finally, some of you know that you are not interested in engineering or science, but just want to own a piece of paper, which is the key to joining the IIT Old Boys Network (girls can join it too).

Whatever is the answer, be honest with yourself. If you have a passion, it is extremely important to follow it, Your career will largely depend on how passionately you do your job, and if you are not interested in that discipline, you won't perform well in IIT, you won't perform well in your job, and you won't have a good career. Remember, there are excellent careers in all disciplines.

So fill up the discipline of your passion as a choice in as many participating Institutes as you are willing to study in. If you can't get admission to that discipline in an IIT, see if you can study it in a good institute outside the IIT system.

But if you have not been able to identify your passion, do not worry. I have collected the questions that I have been frequently asked over the years, along with their answers. I hope you will find these helpful in taking your own decision about the order of choices to be filled in.

  1. Should I be selecting an IIT or a Discipline.
  2. I have decided the Discipline. Which IIT should I choose.
  3. I have decided the IIT. Which program should I choose.
  4. Should I prefer a Dual-degree program or a BTech program.
  5. If Dual-degree programs are so good, why is it that many people are not opting for it.
  6. Which IIT has the most liberal branch change rules.
  7. Which IIT is best for MBA entrance preparation.
  8. How are programs on Mathematics and Computing.
  9. How are programs on Engineering Physics.
  10. For Bio-related courses, is it necessary to have done Biology in the 12th class.

  11. I am interested in pure science programs. Should I prefer IITs, or IISc, or IISERs.
  12. I am interested in Aerospace related career. Should I prefer IITs or IIST, Trivandrum.
  13. I have heard that IT BHU will become an IIT soon. Will I get a degree from IIT Varanasi, if I join IT BHU.
  14. Is IIT Roorkee as good as original five IITs.
  15. Is it safe to study in Guwahati? Why do many people not prefer IIT Guwahati.
  16. I am convinced about IIT Guwahati. But my parents are not agreeing to let me go so far. What do I do.
  17. Should I opt for programs in one of the eight new IITs. Are they going to be as good.
  18. Which of the new IITs would you recommend.
  19. What discipline should I choose in ISM Dhanbad.
  20. What Institutes would you rank higher than new IITs.

  21. I have got a rank between 1 and 500 in JEE. Should I opt for Computer Science or Electrical Engineering.
  22. I have got a rank between 500 and 1000 in JEE. Should I take Computer Science in IIT Kharagpur or Mechanical Engineering in other four older IITs.
  23. I have got a rank between 1000 and 1500 in JEE. Should I choose Civil in Bombay, Chemical in Delhi/Kanpur/Madras, or ECE/CSE in Roorkee/Guwahati.
  24. I have got a rank between 1500 and 2000 in JEE. What are the prospects of Civil Engineering.
  25. I have got a rank between 2000 and 3000 in JEE. How are programs in Manufacturing, Industrial Engineering, Textiles, and Metallurgy.
  26. I have got a rank between 3000 and 4000 in JEE. What engineering programs (BTech) can I expect to get.
  27. I have got a 4000+ rank in JEE in my first attempt. Should I go for a second chance next year.
  28. I have got a 5000+ rank in JEE. Should I study abroad. I have an offer from NTU, Singapore.
  29. I have got a 6000+ rank in JEE. But I have a much better rank in AIEEE. Can you suggest a few good colleges.
  30. I have got a 7000+ rank in JEE. Why do IITs declare so many candidates as successful when the total number of seats available is less.

  31. How many options should I fill in.
  32. Can I seek refund, if I do not take admission.
  33. Tell me about second round of counseling.
  34. Will there be a third round of counseling.
  35. What are the colleges that admit students based on JEE rank, but are not part of JEE Counseling.
  36. If I need additional information about a specific program, whom do I contact.
  37. Can we contact you for more information.

  1. Should I be selecting an IIT or a Discipline.

    If you are passionate about a particular discipline, then programs in that discipline should be given higher preference. You should be even willing to consider good institutes outside the IIT system to study that discipline. If you are not sure of your interest in any particular discipline, then selecting an IIT is alright.


  2. I have decided the Discipline. Which IIT should I choose.

    I would choose IIT Bombay. In my opinion, which is based on lack of knowledge about things in most IITs, IIT Bombay offers a huge flexibility in their programs and curriculum. You can undergo BTech or BTech (Hons.) programs. Besides, you can either study for a second degree (MTech), or a minor in another discipline. I consider such a flexibility as extremely important, since during the next 4-5 years, your interests will change, and you will have better information to take decisions on your career.

    IIT Bombay has had the good fortune of having visionary leadership for a long time now, and they have really transformed the place in the last couple of decades. At IIT Bombay, they seem to believe that they can't be satisfied with being in top 5 in the country, and they need to compete with the best in the world, and they are not afraid of change.

    Let me also point out that you may not choose an IIT for academic reasons alone. It is ok to go with your heart (or heartthrob, if you have one) in such decisions. For example, some of you may select an IIT because it is closer to home (and you want to be able to meet family every weekend). Some of you may select an IIT because you want to go far off from your home so that your parents can't visit you frequently, and certainly not without a warning. Both are valid ways of selecting an IIT.

    You could also select IIT based on whether you want to be in a large city or a smaller place. Till a few years ago, I used to recommend non-Metro IITs, because Metro IITs attracted students from nearby areas, and hence were very regional in character. But, now Metro IITs are attracting students from all over the country and provide an equally diverse experience.


  3. I have decided the IIT. Which program should I choose.

    A more direct question that I get asked every year is what are the job prospects of various programs. And it is a sad question to answer, because it reflects complete lack of self-confidence even amongst people who have qualified in one of the toughest exams in the world. If they won't have jobs, then who else will.

    If you look at those students who are in the top 75 percent of their class, there is no problems at all in terms of finding a good job. Most graduates in the lowest 25 percent will also find jobs, but there could be cases, where one does not get a job in one's dream company, or does not get a salary in 7 digits, or one could not manage a job through the campus placement, but had to apply on one's own. But, really placement is hardly an issue in IITs. And if you didn't get a satisfactory first job, that is not the end of the world. Perform well in whatever you got, and then switch to something more to your liking.

    And on top of that, most IITians end up doing things completely different from what they studied at IIT anyway. So why worry about placement of a particular program. A large number of IIT graduates seem to be interested in doing an MBA these days. From that career perspective, there is no distinction between various programs. In fact, if you are a smart cookie, and you choose a program which all other smarter cookies will avoid, then you can have an easy life in IIT, spend more time on extra-curricular, developing your personality and soft skills, prepare for CAT, and have a better chance at getting admission to IIMs.


  4. Should I prefer a Dual-degree program or a BTech program.

    There are fewer dual-degree programs now. IIT Kanpur has decided that it will admit all students in BTech program, and the dual-degree will be an option, to be exercised by the student after 2-3 years in the BTech program. IIT Bombay has also closed a couple of dual-degree programs.

    But we still have a large number of them across many IITs. And the answer depends on whether you are talking about the two programs in the same department, or different departments. Let us take the two possibilities separately.

    If you are comparing Dual and BTech in the same department, say Dual (CSE) versus BTech (CSE), then the answer is very simple. Go for BTech. I think the dual-degree programs are fantastic, but why go for an early commitment. And if the MTech part of the dual degree is in a specialized area, that should be avoided. When students don't even know the difference between Computer Science and Electrical Engineering, asking them to commit that they will work on "Power" or "Wireless" or "VLSI" after three or four years is simply ridiculous.

    Now coming to the more interesting question. I prefer CSE over EE. But I am not likely to get admission in BTech (CSE). Should I prefer Dual (CSE) or BTech (EE).

    You could replace EE and CSE with any two departments, and the answer will be same. It depends on how strongly you prefer one department over the other (CSE over EE in this example). And to test how strongly you prefer one department over the other, I will ask a theoretical question. Be honest in answering it.

    Your BTech (EE) program will finish in May 2015. Suppose I were to offer you admission in BTech (CSE) on the condition that your program will be delayed by three months, and you will actually graduate in August 2015. Would you then prefer BTech (CSE) or would you still prefer BTech (EE).

    Basically, if you prefer EE in this hypothetical scenario, then it is clear that your preference for CSE is very minor, and you are not willing to pay even a small cost of three extra months to undertake a CSE program. Then you should prefer BTech (EE) over Dual (CSE).

    But if you preferred CSE in this hypothetical situation, then we can continue this game a bit further. Now, I further suggest that you invest 9 more months in the discipline for which you have indicated a reasonably strong preference. In these nine months, we will most probably give you more than one lakh rupees in cash, we will give you a degree that normally takes two years to complete, and a degree that opens a lot more doors for you in industry. At least in CSE, several multinationals have setup advanced R&D labs in India, and they hire MTechs and PhDs only, giving a very good work environment and a lucrative career. I am sure there are such labs in other disciplines as well.

    To me the decision is a no-brainer (though your mileage may vary). The future certainly belongs to more specialisation, and having an MTech degree will be an asset for everyone. Spending a few extra months in the same environment where you have spent four years is the easiest way to get an MTech degree.


  5. If Dual-degree programs are so good, why is it that many people are not opting for it.

    Two reasons. One, because it does not fit into the career plans of many students. Two, resistance to change. It is not easy to accept something new. Fear of unknown.

    Many students think that they might like to get a US degree after IIT. And the easiest US degree to get is a Masters degree. People feel shy of joining another master's degree after completing one.

    This used to be the only ticket to US a decade or more ago. Very few IIT graduates go abroad today for an MS degree. Most people who go to US today, go with business visa, but still old thinking die hard.

    Also, many students have already decided that they want a non-technical career. They would be interested in MBA after BTech, and they only want an IIT degree. They don't see a value of an additional year in an IIT.


  6. Which IIT has the most liberal branch change rules.

    Frankly, I do not know all the nuances of the branch change rules of all IITs. Also, there are some traditions, which are not codified as rules. My advice would be to not decide your choices based on a hope to get a change of branch. So it does not matter which IIT is liberal and which is not. But if you are interested in knowing more, please read the JEE Counseling brochure. It gives a reasonably good summary of all branch change rules.

    But I do know that IIT Gandhinagar has very liberal branch change rules. Last year, as per the information received by me, every single student who wanted a branch changed was allowed to change. On the other hand, IIT Kanpur has extremely small number of changes allowed. Till a few years ago, IIT Kanpur used to be amongst the most liberal, not any more.


  7. Which IIT is best for CAT preparation.

    There is MBA coaching available in every city and town. (May be not Mandi. But I won't be surprised if there is coaching there too.)

    If you are sure that you will like to go for MBA after your under-graduate program, select the program with the largest closing rank. Statistically speaking, it is likely to be least competitive. Since you are not interested in any program, and only want to be associated with IIT brand, choose a program with least number of years (4-years) and a program where very few top rankers are likely to be present.


  8. How are programs on Mathematics and Computing.

    In many IITs, there are programs on Mathematics and Computing. Please note that in all cases that I know of (but please check individual website), the program is offered by the Department of Mathematics and not the Department of Computer Science. It means that the major component of the program will be Mathematics, and the Computing component will be significantly less than what a pure Computer Science program would offer. But if you are very keen on anything related to computers, and you can't get the full-fledged program on Computer Science, then these programs are the next best things in life. You, of course can get into software industry, though you will find it difficult to get a job in research labs of IT companies. Also, these programs are popular wih financial firms.

    And while they may be poor cousins of Computer Science programs within the IIT system, I would tend to favor them over a CS program outside IIT system, even for those who are sure that they really want to be in Computing as a career. First, in some IITs, a few courses in the program may be offered by Computer Science Department. Please check their website, or ask a faculty member in the Mathematics department. Second, most IITs give you opportunities to do elective courses from outside the department, and hence you may be able to do a few courses from Computer Science Department (other than those which are compulsory in the curriculum).

    Also, if you are serious about a career in computing, then you should be planning to do an MTech later on, irrespective of whether you do a CS degree from a non-IIT, or a Maths and Computing degree from an IIT. And both will stand an equal chance for admission to most MTech programs.

    And, if you have something inherently against a five-year degree, or if you have something against an MSc degree, you can consider IIT Guwahati's offering, which is a BTech program in Mathematics and Computing.


  9. How are programs on Engineering Physics.

    The programs on Engineering Physics differ significantly from one IIT to another. These programs invariably include several Physics courses, but what differentiates them from MSc (Physics) courses are the courses from other disciplines. Some IIT may have substantial amount of Electronics in the curriculum, while another one may have material science, and yet another one may have courses from a diverse set of disciplines.

    So, please read the JEE brochure, or visit the website for more details before deciding which program matches your interests. But, in general, they are great for those who really wish they could study Physics, but parents are forcing them to study "Engineering" and everyone else is telling them how important it is to get a "BTech" degree as opposed to an "MSc" degree.


  10. For Bio-related courses, is it necessary to have done Biology in the 12th class.

    To the best of my knowledge, there is no requirement of passing Biology in the 12th class for courses on Bio-technology, Bio-chemistry, Bio-sciences, Bio-medical, and so on. I did not see any such requirement mentioned in the JEE Brochure.


  11. I am interested in pure science programs. Should I prefer IITs, or IISc, or IISERs.

    I would suggest Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, followed by those IISERs who have already shifted to their permanent campus. Both IISc and IISERs have extremely flexible programs, where you don't have to decide your major discipline right now. This, as I have said above, is a great flexibility to have. Also, their curriculum exposes you to all branches of science, not just the discipline you will get a degree in.


  12. I am interested in Aerospace related career. Should I prefer IITs or IIST, Trivandrum.

    Indian Institute of Space Science and Technology,
    Thiruvananthapuram,
    is still too new to really know how it will pan out. While IITs (that offer programs in Aeronautical Engineering) have well established departments. However, IIST has a close association with ISRO. And that association would mean that this Institute would always have enough faculty, resources, live research problems, practical training, and so on. In my opinion, that is a huge plus.


  13. I have heard that IT BHU will become an IIT soon. Will I get a degree from IIT Varanasi, if I join IT BHU.

    This is a question that has been on everyone's mind for many years. Now, finally, the bill is with the Parliament. Lok Sabha has passed it, and Rajya Sabha will consider it in due course. I don't wish to assume what Rajya Sabha will do with the bill. But the chances are that IT BHU will become an IIT soon. It probably will be known as IIT BHU.

    However, I would like to caution that even assuming that the IIT status will happen soon, it will take quite some time for its impact to be felt on the quality of education. So, if you believe that IT BHU was not preferred in the past only because of branding, but its quality is as good as any other IIT, then you can take the chance, and fill up IT BHU programs in your options. But if you believe that IT BHU was not preferred because its quality of education (including infrastructure and other aspects) was less than other IITs, then a name change should not make your choices any different.


  14. Is IIT Roorkee as good as original five IITs.

    IIT Roorkee is doing well. They do have some weak spots. In Computer Science, for example, I would definitely rank IIIT Hyderabad higher than IIT Roorkee. In general, look at the website. Do they have enough faculty members in that discipline. IIT Roorkee has its strengths. And the original five IITs have their weaknesses.


  15. Is it safe to study in Guwahati? Why do many people not prefer IIT Guwahati.

    To the best of my knowledge, it is as safe to be in Guwahati as in Kanpur or Mumbai. Yes, it does have an image problem. A lot of geography-challenged parents cannot differentiate between Guwahati and the rest of North-East India. Even an occasional law and order problem in North-East is immediately linked to Guwahati in their mind. Please don't worry. It is a beautiful campus, right next to the mighty Brahmaputra. You will enjoy your stay there.

    The problem with Guwahati is really its connectivity. The number of trains from Guwahati to the rest of the country is rather small, and you need reservations much in advance. The connectivity has been improving over the years, and simultaneously, the closing ranks have been improving as well.

    Of course, they do have less faculty in some disciplines than what they would like. But as I said elsewhere, look at their website to get exact data, and then make up your mind. In terms of infrastructure, I don't think they are anyway less endowed than others. It is cheap to build infrastructure.


  16. I am convinced about IIT Guwahati. But my parents are not agreeing to let me go so far. What do I do.

    Argue with them. Convince them. Put them in touch with some faculty member in IIT Guwahati. Tell them that for your job, you might have to go abroad, even farther than Guwahati, and for people in North India, IIT Guwahati is not farther than IIT Madras.


  17. Should I opt for programs in one of the eight new IITs. Are they going to be as good.

    As I said elsewhere, building infrastructure is cheap. So there is no reason for not having as good facilities in new IITs as old IITs have. Of course, it will take time. All new IITs are in temporary campuses, and many of them do not even have their land allocation done. And in a temporary campus, facilities cannot be what one can have at one's own campus. But still most new IITs have built good facilities at the temporary locations. Please do visit their respective websites to find out more about them.

    I have no reservation suggesting that you consider programs in new IITs seriously.


  18. Which of the new IITs would you recommend.

    I am extremely hopeful about IIT Gandhinagar. It will be in the same league as older IITs soon. The activities there clearly shows how important leadership is for any organization. They are trying to bring innovation to every aspect of institution building. You will certainly enjoy and learn well in such an environment. Out of three new IITs that I have visited so far, they have clearly impressed me a lot more than others.

    I will bet on IIT Hyderabad next. They have been very successful in attracting quality faculty. They have the advantage of being close to a Metro city. They have an excellent website, which gives you a sense of excitement on the campus.

    Good air connectivity coupled with strong leadership (no malice towards leadership of other new IITs) would ensure that these two IITs improve much faster.


  19. What discipline should I choose in ISM Dhanbad.

    If you think you only want a degree from a good enough place to pursue a non-technical career, and degree is only a line in the resume, then you need not join ISM Dhanbad. My suggestion would be to give higher preference to programs within the IIT system.

    But if you are genuinely interested in Mining related programs, then ISM is a good place to study. And remember that mining is getting hot these days, so there is really no shortage of good jobs in mining. For mainstream disciplines like Computer Science, Electrical, Mechanical, etc., my suggestion would be to compare these programs at ISM Dhanbad with those in other fine institutions, including those which are outside the IIT system.


  20. What Institutes would you rank higher than new IITs.

    It is difficult to say for other disciplines. But in Computer Science, I will certainly consider IIIT Hyderabad as having emerged as a top class IT Institution. IIIT Delhi is only a 3-year old institution, but it is one you should watch out for.

    I am told that School of Planning and Architecture, New Delhi, is excellent for the study of Architecture.


  21. I have got a rank between 1 and 500 in JEE. Should I opt for Computer Science or Electrical Engineering.

    Difficult question. But an easy answer: I don't know. (This is really the case with most questions.)

    I don't know enough about EE, but from outside, it appears to me that EE is a much more difficult and challenging program, while anyone can do Computer Science. We in CS departments believe in inclusiveness. Everyone who can think logically, is welcome. But these EE types want only those who are good at Mathematics. I find EE guys to be always serious, while computer science guys are always looking for more fun. (My bias, of course.)

    But more seriously, the world is fast becoming inter-disciplinary. After doing Electrical Engineering, you would be able to pick up Computer Science stuff easily (we are accessible to everyone, remember), but not vice versa.

    And, here is an interesting tale:
    Electrical Engineering versus Computer Science


  22. I have got a rank between 500 and 1000 in JEE. Should I take Computer Science in IIT Kharagpur or Mechanical Engineering in other four older IITs.

    If you are keen on Computer Science, also consider other IITs like those at Guwahaty and Hyderabad and Roorkee. Otherwise, you could go for Mechanical Engineering in other older IITs.

    I have a serious concern about IIT Kharagpur. The attention of IIT Kharagpur leadership has remained divided because of several allegations of wrongdoing in the last few years, starting with the JEE 2006. These things do affect the focus on academic excellence, and it shows in the declining number of top students going to IIT Kharagpur over this period. You may also refer to my blog on trends in JEE Counseling over the last several years.


  23. I have got a rank between 1000 and 1500 in JEE. Should I choose Civil in Bombay, Chemical in Delhi/Kanpur/Madras, or ECE/CSE in Roorkee/Guwahati.

    Since you are asking this question, it is clear that you do not have any deep interest in any specific discipline. If that is the case, as I said above, my personal preference is for IIT Bombay. After that, I will prefer to be in a metro. But your interests may be different. Do go through the websites of all programs. Think of all pros and cons from your perspective. And then take YOUR decision.


  24. I have got a rank between 1500 and 2000 in JEE. What are the prospects of Civil Engineering.

    I guess the "prospects" is a code word for "how much salary can I expect at the end of four years." If you are only interested in knowing whether there are enough jobs in Civil Engineering, then I can tell you that there are more than enough jobs in Civil Engineering. But what would be the salary levels 4-5 years from now. How will you perform in the Civil Engineering program, and whether you will have enough skills to get a job, I cannot predict all that.


  25. I have got a rank between 2000 and 3000 in JEE. How are programs in Manufacturing, Industrial Engineering, Textiles, and Metallurgy.

    Again, simple answer. I do not know. But why are you not considering new IITs. You could get to study a discipline, which you might be more interested in.

    But if you are keen to study only in old IITs, you should know that pretty much everyone in an IIT is likely to get a job, and a large number of persons would not be in their discipline soon after their graduation, anyway. So in that sense the discipline does not matter. What IITs give you is not just learning in a particular discipline, but train you for life-long learning. The kind of learning environment you will find in IITs is difficult to replicate elsewhere.


  26. I have got a rank between 3000 and 4000 in JEE. What engineering programs (BTech) can I expect to get.

    You are likely to have a large number of options. Lots of programs in new IITs should be available. Though IT BHU closing ranks may improve this year, but still a large number of their programs should be available. There would be some programs like Naval, which should be open at these ranks. Many Bio related programs should also be open. But remember, if you are looking for programs in pure science, consider IISc and IISERs as well.


  27. I have got a 4000+ rank in JEE in my first attempt. Should I go for a second chance next year, or should I join whatever I am getting this year.

    It is a very personal decision. (Aren't all decisions personal.) I am, by and large, a risk averse person, and I believe that success in JEE requires that God be with you on that day. A slight headache, and a couple of questions wrong can set you back by a large number of ranks. Given that chance plays a significant role in JEE selection, I wouldn't advice anyone to take that chance again, if you can find anything of your interest in an IIT. (And remember, if you accept admission at an IIT, you are not allowed to give JEE again.)

    Of course, if there was a medical reason or some other strong reason that caused you to score much less than what you think you would have done in the absence of such a reason, then you may give the exam again.

    There are several programs that based on last year's closing ranks are likely to close after 4000. Then there is Design program in IIT Guwahati, which is very good. You should study the Counseling Brochure carefully to find out the likelihood of getting a branch by looking at the last year's closing ranks. Please note that last year's closing ranks are just guidelines, and in some cases, the closing ranks can vary substantially from one year to the other.


  28. I have got a 5000+ rank in JEE. Should I study abroad. I have an offer from NTU, Singapore.

    If you have decided that your passion lies in a particular discipline, then you have to look at your options and decide the best place to study that discipline. How does it matter whether that place is in India or abroad. (Of course, you should be able to afford it.)

    On the other hand, if this was a trick question (like the kind we ask in JEE), and you really intended to ask me to compare Computer Science in a foreign university with a less popular discipline in an IIT, then it is complicated. IITs' brand value (and that helps in career, as I have said before) is much higher than most academic institutes in Asia for under-graduate studies. And the other is the cost issue. Can you afford to study abroad, and even if you can, is it worth that much investment. On the other hand, the advantages of studying abroad are that you are getting international exposure at an early age, which has a significant value. Also, you are getting to study that you prefer. These are the positives and negatives. Now you decide for yourself which factors you are going to give more weight.

    Let me also add that compared to the best institutions in the world, IITs' quality of education is good but not great. Our graduates do well because we take the best, and a small amount of value addition can turn them into gold. But if you consider the value addition that many good US universities provide to an average student, no Indian college can come close. You study in IIT because they provide the best education in India, and they have the best brand name, provide access to Old Boys' Network, and is almost free compared to the cost of providing that education. But purely in terms of quality of education, many universities in US will be better. For almost a decade, we had kept open a channel of admission for NRIs through SAT scores. None of our illustrious alumni settled in USA thought about sending their sons and daughters to IITs. (I did my MS and PhD from University of Maryland, College Park. Quality of under-graduate education there was certainly better than at IITs.)


  29. I have got a 6000+ rank in JEE. But I have a much better rank in AIEEE. Can you name a few good colleges, in case I don't get admission to any program in an IIT.

    Please read my article on how to choose a college.

    You may also want to read my blog entry recommending a few colleges for CS/IT only.


  30. I have got a 7000+ rank in JEE. Why do IITs declare so many candidates as successful when the total number of seats available is less.

    There are many candidates who prefer to join other colleges if they can't get a discipline of their choice through JEE. Because of this, JEE declares many more candidates successful than the number of seats. The total number of successful candidates is about 1.15 times the total number of seats available (including reserved seats). It means that depending on how many candidates choose to not take admission through JEE, some of the successful candidates may not be offered admission to any program.


  31. How many options should I fill in.

    You should fill in as many options such that the total number of available seats in all these programs put together are more than your JEE rank. DO NOT consider last year's closing ranks as the guideline to fill in choices. You should not assume that this year's closing ranks will be similar. There is no harm in filling up a large number of options.

    Of course, if you are not interested in some options, you must not fill that. If you are only interested in a few programs, then you fill only those, but then you are not guaranteed an admission. Remember that if you take admission in an IIT, you cannot give JEE again.


  32. Can I seek refund, if I do not take admission.

    You cannot get refund of counseling fee, even if you are not offered any seat. The counseling fee of Rupees One Thousand is only to allow you to participate in the counseling process. It does not guarantee that you will necessarily be offered admission to any of the programs.

    You will be asked to pay the admission fee of Rupees Forty Thousand (Rupees Twenty Thousand for SC/ST candidates) only after you have been offered admission. If you pay that fee, then you have accepted admission. If you wish to withdraw later, you will not be given any refund. (Last year, apparently, there was some confusion in the language, and it seems that JEE did refund the admission fee. But this year, they have been very clear in their language and are not likely to change its policy. But, if Ministry puts pressure, one never knows.)

    Please check the JEE website for authentic information.


  33. Tell me about second round of counseling.

    Since last year, IIT JEE has been conducting a second round of counseling to fill up seats that are left vacant after the first round. Please go through the JEE Counseling Brochure and the website to get authentic information. I am only mentioning here my understanding of the system, which may have inaccuracies.

    Those candidates who accept the program offered in the first round of counseling (by paying the fee) and those candidates who did not get any program of their choice in the first round, will be eligible for the second round. Note that if you do not like the program offered to you in the first round, but want to be considered for the second round, you must still accept the offered program, and pay the required fee. (So, be careful while filling the choices. If you are sure that you won't join a particular program, do not fill that as an option.)


  34. Will there be a third round of counseling.

    As per my information, no third round is planned even if substantial number of students do not accept the admission offers, or do not join even after accepting the admission offer by paying the fee. It is expected that individual IITs and other participating institutes will take independent decisions on this issue. But keep visiting the JEE website for updates on this.


  35. What are the colleges that admit students based on JEE rank, but are not part of JEE Counseling.

    There are a few institutes that use JEE performance for admission. These institutions include five Indian Institutes of Science, Education and Research (IISERs) at Mohali, Pune, Kolkata, Bhopal, and Thiruvananthapuram, respectively. The others include: Rajiv Gandhi Institute of Petroleum Technology (RGIPT) at Rai Bareli (UP), and Indian Institute of Maritime Studies (Merchant Navy). LNM Institute of Information Technology (LNMIIT), Jaipur also admits some students based on JEE performance.


  36. If I need additional information about a specific program, whom do I contact.

    Certainly, not me. I know somethings about Computer Science and IT. I have some general knowledge about various other fields, but no detailed knowledge. If you want to know what do they teach in that program, or which companies came last year to hire, I would not know any of that stuff.

    Please visit the website of the department who is offering that program. Find out email addresses of some faculty members or even students. Send your query to one or two persons only. Please Do Not Spam.


  37. Can we contact you for more information.

    I will be glad to answer your further questions, if time permits. But I do not wish to discuss JEE Counseling on phone. Please do not call me. Please contact me only on email, and that too only on my personal email id, and not on the IITK email address. You can send me email at: sanghi[AT]gmail.com
    (Remove [AT] and replace it by @.)

    Even on email, I will not be able to answer all the queries. I get far too many emails, and I prefer to respond to those emails, which are easily readable, and where the question is very clear, and not something that I have already answered in this page. Please don't ask me what can be available at what rank. First read the JEE Counseling Brochure for 2011, which you should be getting soon. Also, there are websites on the Internet where people have put up the closing ranks of last year. My guess at how closing ranks will change this year will be as good as yours.

    Further, if you send me an email, please note the following:
    • Emails with SMS like language are not readable.
    • Emails with all capital letters are not readable. (It amounts to shouting.)
    • Use of Roman script for Hindi words is discouraged.
    • Use proper puntuation marks, and capitalize the first letter of every sentence.
Best wishes.

Thursday, May 19, 2011

IIT Kharagpur Suspends a Professor

As per this ToI news item, IIT Kharagpur has finally decided to suspend Professor Rajeev Kumar. It was coming. IIT Kharagpur has been in the news for the last five years for all the wrong reasons. And generally government organizations tend to believe that we must shoot the messenger, rather than take care of basic problems that are being raised. The leadership is very unlikely to question itself. And the service rules for government officers are such that if Government wants, it can find ways to harass any employee. So, given this power equation, we were just waiting for this event to happen.

But it is sad. IIT Kharagpur was the first IIT, and has been the harbinger of quality engineering education. With such an illustrious history, it has to stoop to the level that it has gone to, is really sad and reflective of the quality of leadership that it has had in the last decade or so.

Let us look at the charges against Prof. Kumar, as reported. He had alleged that there is mass copying in IIT Kharagpur, could not prove it, and this tarnished the image of the faculty and students, and lowered their morale. Similarly, he made allegations about some wrongdoing in the laptop purchase process of the Institute.

How can an allegation of mass copying lower the morale of the faculty. Suppose I were to allege that Indian Army has killed 1 crore civilians in Jammu and Kashmir. This would tarnish the image and lower the morale ONLY IF people believe it. Otherwise, it would be treated as a stupid joke, and I cannot be punished for stupid jokes. On the other hand, if what I say is largely true, then I cannot be punished for just making a statement of fact. The only time I can be punished for tarnishing image is when what I say is wrong, but still believable. I am sure that IIT Kharagpur faculty (and academicians and other interested persons elsewhere) did not take his charge seriously. (And if several faculty members of IIT Kharagpur faculty did take the charge seriously, and actually got demoralized by it, students must avoid going to IIT Kharagpur to be taught by persons of such fragile egos. They will mistreat you also.)

There is a bit more problem with the laptop purchase in the sense that the model that IIT Kharagpur was planning to buy and the model that Prof. Kumar was planning to buy were not identical. They were very similar in specifications, and there could have been a confusion in the beginning. But as soon as it was pointed out that they were not identical, he should have apologized and closed the chapter. But think about it. This charge has stuck a bit more compared to the previous charge, because there is an element of truth in it. The way IIT Kharagpur treated his request, and tried to malign him on account of his asking his son to get an additional quotation, was not worthy of a world class institution. They made some statements and then retracted. They were not fully transparent either. Later, MHRD had to intervene and asked them to stop purchases of those laptops. Is this matter so serious and so one-sided that a Professor be suspended. Sorry, that is too draconian a step by IIT Kharagpur.

It is true that IIT Kharagpur reputation has been going down consistently since 2006, when Prof. Rajeev Kumar exposed the serious problems in the way IIT Kharagpur conducted JEE that year. In my earlier blog, Trends in JEE Counseling, I had mentioned that IIT Kharagpur has seen the sharpest decline of closing ranks of various programs amongst the oldest five IITs in the last five years, and my conjecture is that it is at least partly due to the bad press that IIT Kharagpur has received in this period.

IIT Kharagpur has received bad press on several counts. The issue of fake institute, which was apparently not just run by some faculty members of the IIT, but even alleged to have received some official support in the past. The issue of poor health facilities on campus, leading to death of a student, which resulted in Prof. Damodar Acharya submitting his resignation (which was promptly rejected after there was calm on campus). Director of IIT Kharagpur has been made an accused in AICTE Scam as per this ToI report. It may be noted that Prof. Acharya was AICTE Chairman before assuming the role of Director, IIT Kharagpur.

These issues have been far more serious, far more demoralizing, and tarnished the image far more than the laptop issue or the mass copying issue. But IIT Kharagpur is certainly not happy with the JEE 2006 case, which Professor Kumar has been pursuing for the last five years, and which has resulted in significant (but still not sufficient) improvement in transparency of JEE. So, they have now found relatively minor cases, which they can use to punish Prof. Kumar.

By the way, in the issue of Director being made a co-accused by CBI, which should demoralize the faculty a lot more, there is no move to make him resign, not just in IIT Kharagpur, but even outside. It is because, by and large, the academicians understand that an accusation is not the same as a proof of involvement or culpability. Everyone has to be presumed innocent, till proven guilty. But under the leadership of the same Director, IIT Kharagpur is now interested in silencing a prominent critic.

Educational institutions should not be seen as government departments. They must have value systems which are far more liberal than what may be permitted in other government departments. And, I am, of course, referring to the freedom of speech. Someone should read and understand what all is accepted by administrators of top universities in the world. The tolerance on IIT Kharagpur campus is really low at this time.

If IIT Kharagpur administration wants to consider itself as a Government Department, and therefore, charge-sheet a professor for talking to media, then it shows the vision of its leadership. Any potential student or faculty should think not just twice, but 10 times, before joining such an institute, which is agreeing through its actions that it cannot be a world class institute. Other IITs are at least trying.

There is another charge against Professor Kumar. He apparently threatened the Dean once. And as a proof, they have shown him a copy of the email that he sent. The email essentially says that because of the Dean's involvement in other cases, he should not be a member of the committee to investigate Prof. Kumar's letters, and urged him to recuse himself from the committee. Now, Prof. Kumar has mis-spelt the word and said rescue , which apparently is a threat word. You rescue yourself if you can, I will kill you, sort of thing. Can anything be more laughable, and does one still need proof that IIT Kharagpur is hell bent on destroying a career, because of the past genuine exposures of that professor.

What is the solution, now. I think it is clear that Prof. Kumar has gone overboard in some of his recent allegations. Also, there is too much negative feelings between him and a lot of people at IIT Kharagpur. This is not the environment where he can continue to live peacefully, and carry out his teaching and research. He and IIT Kharagpur administration should come to a settlement, which may include withdrawal of all charges and suspension against him, and he should immediately start looking for a job. With his credentials, he should not have any difficulty in joining one of the several other IITs. He could take VRS from IIT Kharagpur, so that he can get both a pension and a salary, which will be financially beneficial to him. IIT Kharagpur can then work towards finding other scapegoats for its problems.

But while all this play itself out, my message to JEE 2011 candidates: Avoid an institute where a significant part of time and energy of its leadership is spent on ensuring that its problems are not visible to the outside world.

Monday, May 16, 2011

JEE 2011 Admits Errors in Question Papers

JEE has announced the answer key on its website.

It took JEE only 5 weeks to announce the answer key. And it must have hurt the organizers of the world's toughest exam to admit that they had SEVEN questions which were either ambiguous, or had a printing mistake, or were simply wrong. And these questions are worth 36 marks. That is huge when 4+ lakh students are vying for less than 10,000 seats.

And this is not all. Apparently, there are more questions, even in Chemistry, where the "official" answer is being considered unsatisfactory by the students. But IIT will not take cognizance of these complaints. The answer key is final.

And one wonders why did IITs take 5 weeks to announce the marking scheme. If they had done so in 5 hours, they could have taken inputs from all, and then finalized the scheme. But now, they have to announce the result on 25th May, and they can't change the key at this late stage, even if some errors are genuine. The doubt about JEE 2011 will always remain.

Of course, given that they weren't interested in listening to the students to begin with, they did the next best thing, in terms of giving marks to all, or giving marks for multiple correct answers.

But doing the best under the circumstances does not mean that it won't hurt anyone. For the ambiguous questions, if someone found the answer, what is now deemed correct, but did not write the answer, the candidate does not get any benefit. Of course, the hope is that there are very few such students, and some unfairness to them is more acceptable than to redo the exam and delay the entire admission process by two months. (And I agree that one needs to be practical about these things.)

The Right to Information Act has forced JEE to give out some information in the last 5-6 years, and in each of these years, there have been some serious doubts about the conduct of the exam. It makes me wonder. Was I lucky to have passed JEE a few decades ago. May be they were equally inept at conducting the exam at that time too, and I was declared selected by mistake. I must thank my stars that there was no RTI then. Otherwise, someone else may have studied in IIT in my place, and that someone would have been writing this blog, instead of me.

I think IITs should seriously consider giving up JEE. They just can't handle it. A professional organization should be entrusted with conduct of such an important exam.

Wednesday, April 27, 2011

Can we have a common entrance exam for all engineering colleges

Most people connected to education in India agrees on one thing: There are too many exams. Recently, Chairman of the Scientific Advisory Council to Prime Minister (SAC-PM), Prof. C N R Rao, wrote a letter to Prime Minister, saying the same thing, and amongst many suggestions asked that there be only one entrance exam for all undergraduate courses in technical education in the country. He gave example of US where the admission is based on a single exam, GRE. (He probably did not know that GRE is used for graduate admission and not under-graduate admission.) Here is the link to Indian Express news item.

T Ramasami committee, charged with the task of JEE reform, has also made a plea that there should be a single exam in the country for admission to all engineering colleges. Here is the link to Indian Express news item.

Whenever I read such news item, I wonder, why they are wasting their time. If this is a dominant viewpoint for more than a decade, and there has been absolutely zero progress despite several committees, there must be a significant problem in achieving the goal. Why don't these stalwarts think of those problems first, and either tell us how those problems can be resolved, or advise the government that this is an impractical goal.

After all, when the Ministry of HRD asked CBSE to start AIEEE (All India Engineering Entrance Exam), it was done with the definite goal that this will be that single exam for all engineering colleges. Why did that not happen. Why do some states continue with their own engineering entrance tests. Why do many private universities continue to have their own tests. But most importantly, why do IITs continue to have their own test.

I am particularly asking this question about merging AIEEE and JEE, since this should have been the easiest to achieve administratively. After all, both CBSE and IITs are supervised by Ministry of HRD. MHRD can call the stake holders of both the exams, and thrash out any issues. If you can not convince your own organizations to do a single exam, then you should forget about a grand unification of all exams in the country. It is a waste of time even attempting it.

Why can't we merge AIEEE and JEE. I don't know, but I can do some loud thinking. First is the issue of trust. I don't think IITs really trust that AIEEE is organized as honestly as JEE (though there is really no data point to doubt the integrity of AIEEE, if anything they are more transparent). Second, there is a difference of opinion on whether the entrance test should be to select those who are good students and understand the 12th class science, or the entrance test should select those who don't need to be taught science in the first year. And lastly, let us not forget that both the exams earn a handsome amount of money for the organizers. And then, of course, IIT system has time and again shown that they are rigid, and would adopt changes only when the Minister has the guts to call their bluff and force them to change (and then we will all crib about loss of autonomy). So we will not give up JEE unless Minister forces us to do so.

I don't think there are any insurmountable problems in merging AIEEE and JEE. And unless it is done, you do not have any moral authority to ask other universities or states to not conduct their own entrance exam. If IITs have a special need for their own exam, when they test the same subjects, with roughly the same curriculum, then how can you argue that the University of XYZ, who actually has a different admission criteria (may be they test the language, or they give different weights to Physics, Chemistry and Maths, or they have a different syllabus, etc.), does not have that special need for its own exam.

Also, people suggesting a single entrance exam would do well to study the admission process in US universities. If they do that, they will realize that while US does have its SAT, it is only one of the many parameters that the admission office will look at. There is a subjective evaluation of multiple parameters, which is important since different universities may want to (and indeed do) give different weights to components of that evaluation. In Indian scenario, having subjective evaluation of admission applications is unthinkable because of the pressure that it would entail on the admission office, to give admission to well connected ones. So, if a university genuinely wants to evaluate different skills, it has no option but to go for its own admission test.

We have this important requirement that the admission test should be after the board exams in March. We need to finalize admissions by July, and therefore, all results must come in June (preferably early June). All this means that we only have about one month for all the exams, from 1st week of April to 1st week of May. Therefore, we cannot have the luxury of allowing a repeat of the exam, if a candidate does not perform well in that exam on that day. This is too dangerous for students, if we are going to have a single exam. Multiple exams actually allow mental peace to students as they know that if they don't perform well in one exam, they still have hopes of getting admission in the next best set of Institutes.

To have a single exam, we will have to have a system by which a student can give the exam twice or even thrice within the same admission cycle. This would mean that the exam would have to be conducted throughout the year. It means that the syllabus to be tested can only be 11th class syllabus, but that is not standardized across the country. (The combined syllabus of 11th and 12th has a reasonable overlap across the country, but the order in which these topics are taught in different boards vary.)

And, of course, the exams are a major money earner for the state technical universities as well as the private universities. (But this is changing. Private universities have realized that they can charge Rs. 1000 per candidate as application fee, even if they are using AIEEE score for admission. So why conduct one's own exam, which is an additional cost.)

Based on all the reasons I have stated above, I do not see a common entrance exam for all engineering colleges in near future.

So, is there no hope at all. Well, I think there is a possibility of a common entrance test, but it will have to be very different from anything that is going on right now. First of all, it will have to be a computer based test, with a large question bank in every subject, generating random questions for every candidate form that bank. Second, it will have to be conducted through out the year, with students allowed to take it multiple times, and improve their score. Third, it will have to have several optional components so that different universities can consider scores in different sections, depending on their needs. Different sections may be not just physics, chemistry, maths, biology, engineering drawing, english (and other languages), aptitude, general knowledge, and so on, but could also be Maths (low level), and Maths (high level). Also, within a section, the test could be adaptive like GRE, where by the questions asked depend on the level of the candidate. If a candidate is answering most questions correctly, then the computer starts asking more difficult questions from the question bank (and of course, it has historical data to standardize all questions' difficulty level), and the reverse happens, if a candidate cannot answer many questions. This would imply that the higher score is not just by answering more easy questions, but indicate an understanding of the higher order by that candidate.

All this will take at least 7-8 years from now. JEE preparations start an year in advance. So, no change in 2012. The earliest that AIEEE and JEE can be merged is 2013. After its experience will it become easier to convince others. At least 3-4 years will be needed for those negotiations. So if your kids have gone past the primary school, do not hope for the common entrance test for him/her.


Wednesday, April 20, 2011

Trends in IIT JEE Counseling

I have the closing ranks of all the programs offered through JEE from 2003 through 2010. I thought I will spend some time studying the trends and see what patterns emerge as a result. I have done two kinds of analysis. One, comparing 2003 preferences to 2010 preferences. This gives us the longer term trends. Two, comparing 2009 preferences to 2010 preferences to capture any sudden or recent trends. This was particularly done for programs in recently started IITs.

Please note that there are far too many variables which could have affected the preferences and the closing ranks. First of all, in these 8 years, the number of seats in IITs have almost doubled. We now have reservation for OBC (Non creamy layer) candidates. We also have two rounds of counseling to fill up vacant seats after the first round. There have been several new programs started in these 8 years. Also, the number of selections from each zone influence the closing ranks each year, as people tend to prefer the IIT of their zone. All this would affect the preferences and closing ranks. But the hope is that if consider the closing ranks for programs which have continued in existence for all these 8 years, the changes in other conditions should have roughly affected them in similar ways, and therefore, this study is at least indicative of what the students and parents are thinking about.

I did briefly notice the trends from one year to the other for a few popular programs in various IITs. I noticed that such changes are minor in nature. However, the changes over the 8 years' period are very significant. This happens mainly because most candidates fill up their choices under the influence of their parents. And the parents have generally no idea about various programs (not that candidates are much better at it). So the parents insist on looking at last years' closing rank and barring a few minor changes (generally related to geographical preference), ask the candidates to fill up in that order. A few brave souls do things differently, talk to a lot more people to seek advice, and actually follow that advice. These small changes become a trend over longer duration.

For the 8 year trends, I have only considered those programs which have been in existence over these 8 years.

First the programs where the closing ranks have gone down. Architecture programs are the worst affected. BArch (Roorke) closing rank has gone down from 4365 to 9490, and BArch (Kharagpur) closing rank has gone down from 3624 to 8721. Next the Design program at Guwahaty, where the closing rank has gone from 3773 to 6582. Almost identical decline is in BPharma (IT BHU), going from 4349 to 7087. All programs that have anything to do with Bio (Bio Science, Bio chemistry, Bio technology, etc.) have seen the closing ranks becoming worse in this period. (This is surprising as a large number of academicians believe that this century belongs to Biology.)

Generally, the science programs (resulting in MSc degree) have lost popularity, but where the science departments have started offering an engineering like programs, they have done better. So the programs in Engineering Physics, and Maths and Computing, have done better than programs in Chemistry and pure Physics.

The programs that have really improved their perception and ranking are those of Civil Engineering. None of the Civil Engineering programs closed within 2000 ranks in the year 2003. Now, despite such a massive expansion of IIT system, the BTech programs in Bombay and Madras closed around 1500, while at Kanpur closed just before 2000 in the year 2010. In fact, Civil Engineering has shown the most consistent improvement of closing ranks throughout this 8 year period.

There are some interesting short-term trends about other engineering disciplines, but that is later.

In terms of locations, the preference for IIT Bombay kept increasing throughout this period. Popularity of IIT Delhi has also improved quite a bit in this period. While IIT Madras has shown some improvement, IIT Kanpur and IIT Kharagpur have not been the favorites of today's generation. In general, increasing number of students are preferring bigger cities over smaller ones. (This is not to say that the meteoric rise of IIT Bombay in this period is only due to its geographic location. Far from it. There are some solid improvements in their programs, faculty, and infrastructure, last decade.)

A decade ago, when IIT Kanpur started its decline and IIT Bombay started its rise, Metro IITs offered a very regional experience, with most students from nearby areas, and non-Metro IITs offer a more cosmopolitan experience, with students coming from all over the country. And I used to recommend that people should prefer non-Metro IITs for a more diverse experience. But that has changed now. Metro IITs are offering an equally (or even better) cosmopolitan experience, with people from all over the country preferring them over non-Metro IITs.

Comparison of 2009 with 2010

If we just compare the closing ranks of 2009 and 2010, one thing that comes out strongly is the improved closing ranks for lots of programs of IT BHU. I would attribute this to the news at that time that IT BHU would be soon converted to an IIT. Since, now the bill to convert IT BHU to an IIT is already in the Parliament, I would expect this trend to continue this year.

IIT Bombay and IIT Delhi continued their improvement in closing ranks. Many more people showed willingness to opt for Guwahati last year. I think this is because of the improved connectivity through cheap airlines as well as a few more trains to the city. IIT Madras could not maintain its closing ranks, primarily due to decreased number of selections from nearby areas. Surprisingly, the number of selections from Tamilnadu, Karnataka and Kerala are minuscule, and that affects the closing ranks of IIT Madras. IIT Kharagpur continues to get bad press, and hence fewer preferences. Given that this year, it has probably seen more scandals than ever before, I would expect even more candidates to avoid IIT Kharagpur in 2011.

In terms of programs, some of the longer term trends continue. Decline in Architecture, Design, Sciences, Bio-related programs, and so on. The core engineering branches were on strong upsurge, primarily Mechanical, Chemical, and Civil. Surprisingly, Aeronautical and Metallurgical engineering were in less demand, despite the fantastic news from ISRO and continued upturn in metal industry - primarily, aluminum and steel making. I guess the problems in setting up greenfield plants due to land acquisition and environmental concerns has been causing concerns amongst the students. So no hope for Metallurgy this year too.

Computer Science lost its sheen this year. For the first time in over 30 years, the first closing program was not computer science. BTech program in Electrical Engineering at IIT Bombay closed at 98. But besides IIT Bombay, everywhere else Computer Science was preferred over Electrical or Electronics. But the gap has narrowed down significantly. I expect Electrical/Electronics to continue gaining over Computer Science in 2011.

Amongst the six new IITs started in 2008, the size of the city certainly appeared to be the main draw. Both Hyderabad and Gandhinagar saw improvement in their closing ranks in Electrical (compared all IITs on Electrical, as everyone had this program). The surprise was IIT Ropar, which has improved the most in terms of closing rank. I expect this year too, candidates will prefer IITs at Hyderabad and Gandhinagar.

Amongst the IITs at Indore and Mandi, Indore showed much greater improvements in the closing ranks.

Monday, April 11, 2011

IIT Joint Entrance Examination Completes Half Century of Secrecy

Finally, it is over. The 50th edition of Joint Entrance Exam (unless you count the 1997 JEE twice, when the first exam was cancelled because the question paper was leaked) is very different from the first edition in 1962, in format, in terms of number of students, number of IITs and programs, and of course, the hype that JEE generated then and now. But the two editions are not different in one important way - everything about JEE is confidential. The whole organization lacks transparency despite the flaws which has been repeatedly pointed out. At least now we have RTI, and we do come to know of some information about JEE, but often this information is delayed past the time it becomes useless.

JEE always raises more issues than other exams. This is supposedly the key to the greatest career, and hence media reports every little detail about JEE, much more than it cares for AIEEE, even though latter is taken by 2.5 times as many students as JEE.

This year, media has latched on to a couple of announcements by the organizing IIT. The first one said that the answer key will be available within 48 hours of the exam. The second one said that a scanned copy of the answersheet (ORS) will be posted online for all students, even before the result is formally announced. The third one said that the marks obtained by every candidate will be put on the website on the day the results are announced.

The links to media articles are as follows:

Deccan Herald

Times of India

Indian Express

Hindustan Times

These were great announcement. But sceptics were not convinced that this was really going to happen.

JEE already has the answer keys prepared by the same group who prepared the question paper. But the key is not announced because there is a fear that some mistake might have crept in, and if that mistake is detected, there will be a loss of face for the venerable IITs. This time, they promised that the keys will be announced soon after the exam is over, so that students and others can point out mistakes, if any, and then JEE can take those objections into account to decide the final key or grading policy, which will be fair to everyone. Seems like an excellent idea, but an organization built over secrecy for 50 years is not going to let out even the genuine information. It does not matter whether this is fair or not. And sure enough, JEE has gone back on this announcement.

Here is the link for the news report:

Times of India

Now, the key will be announced only after 15th May. How will this enable others to offer feedback before the result is out. We don't know. Why couldn't it be done on 11th April. We don't know. But JEE is sacrosanct within IIT system. You don't ask such questions about God.

Posting of scanned answerbooks (ORS) was to give confidence to students that the technology used by IITs in scanning and recording answers is fool proof and does correct evaluation in all cases. Of course, if it did make an occasional error, then the student can point that out and IIT will fix it before the result is formally out. Seems fair enough. This was done after Allahabad High Court gave a ruling in another exam of BHU that the students should have access to the ORS sheets. (As one would notice that almost all "reforms" in JEE are forced either by courts or by RTI or by Ministry, and the only role of IITs is to delay those reforms till they can.)

However, just putting the scanned copy of the ORS on the web was not good enough. This does not help the student at all, unless you also put on the web how each has been graded. Ideally, the website should have a scanned copy of ORS and what was the right answer for each question, and what is the answer that the JEE evaluation mechanism has recorded. If all this information is there, only then a student can request correction. But this was not to be.

Even the announcement of putting scanned ORS on web has been diluted and now there are doubts whether it will be done before the result is formally announced and counselling process is launched, giving time to students to request correction. The link to the media is:

Hindustan Times

Why is IIT doing this. Apparently, they are afraid that a large number of students may request regrading. Actually, that can be handled very easily. Put a charge of Rs. 1000 for regrading request. After several boards handle many more students, many more exams, and still allow the option of regrading. And the regrading requests are small because one wouldn't pay the regrading charges unless there is a real chance of making to IITs or improving the rank. The real reason is different. I don't think IITs have the confidence in their own processes. There is a fear that if they give out all this information, there may be a large number of cases where the scanning has resulted in significantly different marks. And if that indeed happens, then IITs lose respect, and there is a delay in admission process. And for IITs, the brand equity and the timetable of admission process is lot more important than the fairness to all candidates.

JEE is also afraid that some students will go to court on frivolous counts if a lot of information is revealed before the admission process is over. (Later on, they are forced to reveal it through RTI anyway, but it is too late for most students to approach courts.) But is this fear out of some genuine experience. Have courts stayed admission process through AIEEE which is much transparent than IIT JEE, and which provides the basis for admission into hundreds of engineering colleges. Have JEE lost court cases in the past which were frivolous in nature. What they are really saying is that they don't trust the High Courts of the country, and they can act like that since they are the IITs.

There is still time to act. One hopes that if enough people put pressure on IITs to do the right thing, they may actually do what they promised last month. Improved transparency will be a great move forward by JEE in its Golden Jubilee Year.

Thursday, March 10, 2011

Language skills and JEE

Recently, there was a strange drama in the parliament. Due to some confusion, some Rajya Sabha MPs thought that JEE was conducted only in English. The Minister HRD added fuel to the fire by responding to the question in English, and maintaining that the decision on the language is best left to IIT Council, an autonomous body. Finally, the Rajya Sabha had to be adjourned for 15 minutes, to bring the situation under control.

Of course, JEE question papers are available in Hindi too. So the whole discussion was unnecessary. But just imagine the uproar that will happen if IITs were to decide that they will introduce a language test in JEE. The language test could be in multiple languages - it is only to test linguistic abilities of the candidate. But there will always be criticism that English test is simpler than non-English tests. And, therefore, forget about testing language in JEE.

A few years ago, I met a German student who was carrying out research on the success of Indian IT sector. He told me that he is shocked by whatever he had learnt about the Indian higher education system. One point that he made was that India was a unique country in the world (well, amongst the 50 largest countries anyway) in that it did not consider language skills for the purpose of admission to professional courses. There is a huge amount of research which shows that the language skills are the best predictor of being a successful professional, and that is why the entire world considers these skills as amongst the most important parameter for both under-graduate as well as post-graduate admissions. But India did not do it. (And as I said above, language skills are not synonymous with English skills. It should be possible to design a language test in multiple languages.)

Today, I met a professor of another institute, who has been doing a lot of traveling to various institutes in India, and he told me that he found BITS Pilani students to be amongst the best, and we started discussing this. We felt that the reason for this (perception?, how does one really check this?) could be that BITS Pilani is the only institute in India amongst the top rated institutes which considers language skills as important, and includes them in its admission test. (And also a section on logical reasoning.) It also happens to be the institute with perhaps the highest cutoff for the 12th class marks. (It requires 80 percent in aggregate of Physics, Chemistry and Maths.) And of course, there is a lot of research which shows that the performance in school has a better correlation with the performance in college compared to the correlation between entrance exam with performance in college.

As a result of different admission processes, while a lot of good students in schools (including those who are really good at at least one language) do manage to get through JEE and join IITs, but a lot of students who manage to get admission to IITs do not have good performance in school or do not have good language skills.

Is there a way to influence stake holders to include an exam component in JEE on a language (of the choice of the candidate), and also increase the cutoff marks in 12th from 60% to at least 65%.