tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post2326411903167101255..comments2024-03-29T11:45:43.197+05:30Comments on Musings of Dheeraj Sanghi: Freedom of ExpressionDheeraj Sanghihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06367519409840642182noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-75567125300448563672015-06-09T19:41:19.216+05:302015-06-09T19:41:19.216+05:30Thank you for this piece Prof. Dheeraj Sanghi. In ...Thank you for this piece Prof. Dheeraj Sanghi. In my opinion, the technical issues raised by the administration were really silly, as you rightly pointed out. The level to which this issue got flared up was unfortunate, although I do believe that this was about restricting certain unpopular or deemed-to-be polarising views. The group in question should have been called on to defend the views, rather than taking the route it did. I wrote an opinion piece on the same, where I took the liberty to quote your point on the <i>silliness</i> of the rule. <br /><br /><a href="https://lostinsilence.wordpress.com/2015/06/09/after-the-storm/" rel="nofollow">https://lostinsilence.wordpress.com/2015/06/09/after-the-storm/</a>Ayyappadashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07002211129683498409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-44071793289342989462015-06-09T11:16:17.292+05:302015-06-09T11:16:17.292+05:30@Sriram, Thanks for the link. As I have said above...@Sriram, Thanks for the link. As I have said above, anyone who says that guidelines were violated without mentioning which guidelines (and, of course, I do not even want to get into the controversy of when those guidelines were approved and by whom) is trying to whitewash and frankly not being honest. Also, another defense which gives away the fake attempt at justification is this was not a ban not even a derecognition, but a temporary derecognition, a temporary withdrawal of privileges. Aren't all actions temporary. Even if IITM had said that it was a permanent ban, couldn't IITM be forced to withdraw that ban. Why was a temporary derecognition necessary. Was there any reason to believe that if they were allowed to continue till the next BoS meeting, may be with some stricter requirement of prior notice, they would have caused bigger havoc on the campus (compared to what happened anyway).<br /><br />Frankly, after reading that note on quora, I would have changed my mind, and thought of this controversy not as something seriously mishandled by a conservative IITM administration, but as a serious assault on freedom of expression. But then as he himself said that I don't represent views of IIT Kanpur, and I hope he does not represent views of IIT Madras.<br />Dheeraj Sanghihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06367519409840642182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-56336907145601607032015-06-09T08:20:54.599+05:302015-06-09T08:20:54.599+05:30Of interest on this thread.
http://www.quora.com/...Of interest on this thread.<br /><br />http://www.quora.com/Krishna-Jagannathan/Posts/Of-dissent-intellectual-hit-and-run-and-vitrioliitmsriramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16063826764366606345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-6928885441538937512015-06-03T12:43:29.988+05:302015-06-03T12:43:29.988+05:30I agree with most part of your blog. However I thi...I agree with most part of your blog. However I think if MHRD was right in its letter, taking action after some time would be playing politics. "Guts" and "Honesty" would be in acting on it ASAP and not delay just to show the world "oh, we don't get pressurized by MHRD".Skand Bhargavahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11501544199647786734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-1514065893476497842015-06-02T21:00:14.148+05:302015-06-02T21:00:14.148+05:30Prof.Dheeraj, thank you for a cogent and rational ...Prof.Dheeraj, thank you for a cogent and rational response. As an alumnus of IITM, it is disconcerting and painful to see this issue blow up in the national media and the administration and student body painted in a not so flattering light. IITM has always been highly liberal and open to all as far as the student body, general faculty and activities on campus are concerned. It has a thriving campus culture that promotes a life of the mind and critical thinking, not unlike IITK. <br /><br />But parts of the administration and some faculty have a conservative and old world outlook, which leads to a stodgy and unimaginative response to hot button issues that is technically by the book, clamps down on any troublemakers but misses the bigger picture by miles. In the historical context with Tamil Nadu, Caste, reservations and Periyar especially, are perhaps the biggest hot button issues you can find. <br /><br />It might have worked in the past, but not in the age of social media and 24 hour media coverage, where controversy and conflict sell. In today's day and age, no group or point of view can be really banned or "de-recognized". The concerned student group and it's external supporters, have successfully exploited both the administration's stodginess and the media's hunger for conflict to promote it's agenda and put it on the national stage, discrediting the institute in the process. <br /><br />The correct response at this time is for the student and faculty government bodies on campus to debate the issue and come to a resolution. An external reviewer, such as yourself, should be asked to provide additional inputs and make recommendations. These recommendations should be implemented immediately as a new set of guidelines and followed up with actual actions. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15488650939273343068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-81724927810156204712015-06-01T19:20:36.984+05:302015-06-01T19:20:36.984+05:30Prof. Dheeraj, thank you so much for your response...Prof. Dheeraj, thank you so much for your response. I really hope IITM too has a more tolerant administration.<br /><br />In my view too, de-recognizing them (temporarily) especially now (soon after the letter from MHRD) was a bad move but the need for the de-recognition is being supported by a majority in the institute contrary to earlier cases where there has been dissent with the administration. Interestingly the APSC group has started a protest now with your idea by using "students from '12.9915° N, 80.2336° E and within the 620 acres surrounding".Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10059207415511523848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-14654599311427774472015-06-01T18:30:33.409+05:302015-06-01T18:30:33.409+05:30@Akhilesh, I missed the part about how IITK would ...@Akhilesh, I missed the part about how IITK would have handled. First of all, we too would not want to have any external political groups to be active on our campus by proxy. Second, we would be far more tolerant of the kind of posters and other material that has been put up as a proof of APSC's wrongdoing, and not ban them. (And this is another thing. I see so many supporters of IITM administration saying, oh, they are not banned. They are only disallowed to use IITM facilities, name, email, etc. Why is everyone so afraid of calling a spade a spade.) Third, IITK would have looked at guidelines, figured that they are quite stupid, changed the guidelines to make them more clear about what can be done and what can not be done, and then if the group's future events are inconsistent with the guidelines, then they will be hauled up. Even then, we will not ban a group just through an email. We will set up a committee, who will seek opinions from all sides and then recommend action. This may delay the action a bit, but then a delayed action in such cases does not really hurt. It is not as if they are doing extremely negative events every day. We will also involve Students Gymkhana in any such decision. They will be in the committee. Dean would not normally take such important decisions without consulting Gymkhana. And if a decision has to be taken in the summer, we will involve the acting functionaries of the student, and not say that a suo moto action is being taken now to be reviewed when students come back in August.<br /><br />I know of much more serious letters from MHRD to our previous Director (Prof. Dhande) which were not acted upon (though unfortunately the current Director seems to take such letters more seriously).<br />Dheeraj Sanghihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06367519409840642182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-82592414506732962652015-06-01T18:04:14.098+05:302015-06-01T18:04:14.098+05:30@Akhilesh, IITM administration has botched it up r...@Akhilesh, IITM administration has botched it up really badly. As I have said, I am not supporting APSC's agenda. I don't even know enough about them. I don't know what happened in their meetings. But IITM administration should not have given an impression that it is being done because of MHRD's letter. By doing so, they have allowed political interference, and allowed an issue to be politicized so badly. And this is when I suspect that they had no agenda to please the masters. So timing was completely wrong.<br /><br />Second, and this is the main point of this blog, they should be honest. If the problem is that the group is spreading hate, or is indulging in political activity or doing something which is undesirable, have the guts to stand up and say that this is not in the interest of the Institute. And if they did not have sufficient proof of wrong doing, then they have to tolerate the activities. But hiding behind some absolutely stupid guidelines is such a dishonest thing to do that they have lost all credibility. It has resulted in the issue becoming much bigger than it really should have been.<br /><br />IITM action will actually cause more politics on campus and not less, and that is what I am afraid about.<br />Dheeraj Sanghihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06367519409840642182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-91680025355776242282015-06-01T17:47:53.879+05:302015-06-01T17:47:53.879+05:30Prof. Dheeraj, as Prof. Sriram pointed out - I fee...Prof. Dheeraj, as Prof. Sriram pointed out - I feel there are a lot of points that you have missed. The point that IIT Madras administration is probably a bit conservative when compared to the others maybe? - I might agree. The Dean of Students in the institute has not been a "friend" or "DoSt" is something that might be a popular opinion in the institute. Students of the institute might agree that the situation could have been handled in a better way by the Dean. But having said that...<br /><br />Many external political organizations have been allegedly using clubs like APSC (or for the matter VSC - which is alleged to be a right-wing group by the APSC group which is pro-communist) to polarize the students of the institute. The question would now be, is it right on the part of the institute to allow political influence to take place in the institute with two diverse ideological groups, backed by political organizations fighting out unhealthy debates (read: wars where there is intolerance towards other ideologies) and bringing in unwarranted external influence making the institute a war-zone. Yes, debates are good as long as they are healthy and both these groups have their freedom of expression. The heavy polarization within the institute has happened only in the last two years. Should IIT Madras or any other IIT administration have any say in controlling external political groups to start their student-wings within campus which probably spew venom against each other is the question that needs to be asked. Should IITs be allowed to become like JNU? In the next few years it might go to the extent where there may be an NSUI leader, an SFI leader, an ABVP leader standing for elections for the positions of Student General secretary and so on. The institute administration and concerned students/alumni from the student body think that the reputation of the institute is affected when external political organizations start to have a say on the happenings on campus. Now what is debatable is - Should the administration be okay with it and not involve itself when independent student organizations are almost being used in the way I have mentioned? I'd love to hear your opinion on this and how it would have probably been handled at IIT Kanpur. I'm not sure why the institute does not want to site these as reasons or probably that the group is allegedly spreading hatred and wants to use "guidelines". Perhaps because it is easier to get away while not having to face backlash from external political groups for stating that as a reason.<br /><br />I would also like to link you to the T5E articles -<br />1. http://www.t5eiitm.org/2015/05/dissent-and-derecognition-the-apsc-issue/<br />2. http://www.t5eiitm.org/2015/05/a-case-for-dignified-debate/ <br />3. http://www.t5eiitm.org/2015/05/against-hatred/<br /><br />Here's the entire story - http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil_nadu/Its-Manufactured-Controversy-at-IIT-Madras/2015/06/01/article2842957.ece<br /><br />Despite the two extreme ideological groups present on campus, IIT Madras also has a very liberal crowd and the institute has been supportive, getting more liberal. This can be seen in the fact that we have a Colloquium group that discusses controversial topics and debates on these healthily, an EML (Extra Mural Lecture) group which organizes lectures by imminent personalities irrespective of their ideologies, an LGBTQ support group named Vannam, and lots of other groups which are progressive in nature.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10059207415511523848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-59182986736599713852015-06-01T09:02:57.312+05:302015-06-01T09:02:57.312+05:30बहुत अच्छी टिप्पणी। तर्कसंगत। बधाई।बहुत अच्छी टिप्पणी। तर्कसंगत। बधाई।ढाईआखरhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01652717565027075912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-14713575674615606252015-06-01T00:17:57.042+05:302015-06-01T00:17:57.042+05:30Sriram, As you rightly guessed, I wouldn't con...Sriram, As you rightly guessed, I wouldn't consider "APSC, IITM" as a serious enough offence to warrant a ban. The basic issue to me will be whether "APSC, IITM" would make people believe that they are spokespersons of IITM or that they are representing the entire IITM or a significant stake holder like all students. I don't think that has happened. Indeed, till they were banned, no one seemed to know or care about them even within IITM.<br /><br />I have added your clarification about the ToI report to the main article. And I am soon going to link t5e site also from the blog. Thanks a lot for your comments.Dheeraj Sanghihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06367519409840642182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-70842894896042496692015-05-31T23:36:46.058+05:302015-05-31T23:36:46.058+05:30Dheeraj, I think you have missed one (in my view, ...Dheeraj, I think you have missed one (in my view, crucial) point. The group has not simply stated that they are students at IIT Madras or that the event is being held at IIT Madras. The letter announcing the April event carries the heading "Ambedkar Periyar Study Circle, IIT Madras" - the things about being students at IIT Madras and the event being held at IIT Madras come below this in the text. I think there is a difference between an organization identifying itself in this fashion and an organization that simply holds events on campus, maybe you don't think there is a difference.<br /><br />And, BTW, you are misquoting the ToI report - the student groups opposing the "ban" are not from IITM, they are ALL from outside IITM. And, I would suggest linking to the t5e publication in its entirely instead of a single article - there are several articles there.iitmsriramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16063826764366606345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-16147760523956111692015-05-31T11:18:45.926+05:302015-05-31T11:18:45.926+05:30Appreciate your critical analysis. Very clearly an...Appreciate your critical analysis. Very clearly and nicely done!<br />regards<br />sushilAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09682444999129690129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-82702284052959375892015-05-31T11:02:54.261+05:302015-05-31T11:02:54.261+05:30While we have the "Anonymous letter" and...While we have the "Anonymous letter" and the "replies", where is the pamphlet. What is Indian media doing?Nitesh Bhandarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12830040899073458582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-14279661452401777862015-05-31T10:02:53.209+05:302015-05-31T10:02:53.209+05:30@Dilip, I am quite surprised by your comment. They...@Dilip, I am quite surprised by your comment. They can not get any meeting room or lecture room or any other facility in IIT Madras. They can not even say in any communication that they are students of IIT Madras. How can they still do any activity. What can they do which they wouldn't be able to do in case of a ban.<br /><br />And yet, I am writing in my blog that IIT Madras administration is distinguishing between temporary de-recognition and a ban. So I am writing their version and then disagreeing with their version.Dheeraj Sanghihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06367519409840642182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-67231981176134648862015-05-31T00:57:01.918+05:302015-05-31T00:57:01.918+05:30This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13696381224285074348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-85243689831307989572015-05-30T23:50:13.270+05:302015-05-30T23:50:13.270+05:30This is the most illuminating bit of writing on th...This is the most illuminating bit of writing on the whole issue. Thanks for sharing!Abhimanyu Chandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12537501385340671196noreply@blogger.com