tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post2087118181971096704..comments2024-03-27T14:43:28.040+05:30Comments on Musings of Dheeraj Sanghi: College Admission or Lottery?Dheeraj Sanghihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06367519409840642182noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-57571085572962745952015-07-10T05:56:48.479+05:302015-07-10T05:56:48.479+05:30I am sure that the IITs can survey their alumni an...I am sure that the IITs can survey their alumni and release average incomes of alumni from various branches. I think the students will be able to make better choices if this information was available.Vikramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15184698535624088994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-61928787767973017862015-07-06T18:10:24.383+05:302015-07-06T18:10:24.383+05:30Dr. Vinayak, I understand that the rank of career ...Dr. Vinayak, I understand that the rank of career progressed over the years is not available. But my point is that information on immediate placement is also not available. What is available are some tid bits of information shared by some students and some perceptions, which could be seriously wrong (and in a few cases where I have seen authentic data from even reputed colleges, the perception data on social media is very different). Second, while real data for how alumni are performing 5 years, 10 years, 20 years after graduation is not available, if you talk to successful folks (and we invite many of them on various occasions to address our students), they will tell you that overall quality of education (not always technical content) has helped them tremendously. I mean, I really want to understand how does one come to the conclusion that quality of education has no impact on careers. Because if that was the case, it should be possible for someone to build a nice place where good students can just do anything under the sun, whether cultural stuff or sports, or study for CAT, and there be no teaching/learning (so save the cost of recruiting expensive faculty), and that is it. But we don't have such examples of great universities without faculty anywhere in the world.Dheeraj Sanghihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06367519409840642182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-60972489192949644742015-07-06T17:20:49.340+05:302015-07-06T17:20:49.340+05:30Indian parents and students don't look at qual...Indian parents and students don't look at quality of faculty as a metric to decide which institute to select. Rather, they use placement records of the institutes. I believe that over the years, as the quality of faculty degraded uniformly across all the institutes, that metric lost its relevance. Hence, it got substituted for a proxy metric of placement records as no direct metric, such as "rank of career progressed over the years" is available.Vinayak Naikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03984069970182081021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-14697743208546372602015-07-06T14:15:13.549+05:302015-07-06T14:15:13.549+05:30Dear Prabha, I would fully agree with you that the...Dear Prabha, I would fully agree with you that there can be multiple definitions of quality. But the issue that I am referring to, there is unanimity on both sides which is better quality education, and the argument is only whether quality of education should be a parameter at all in deciding the college, and whether the quality of education at all has any impact on future career. And I can only express my surprise and dismay when one says "I agree that college A has better quality of education, but that has no impact on careers." I think when one says that, one is playing lottery. But then lottery has been a legal business for as long as the humankind has existed.<br />"Agreed with what your said here" prabhaprabhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14832930269084501833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-21522400521794073722015-07-06T09:41:17.917+05:302015-07-06T09:41:17.917+05:30My first job was as an Analytics developer at a (t...My first job was as an Analytics developer at a (then) well-known (day zero, if that really matters) financial services firm + investment bank. Many of the roles in these companies are "fintech" or quant roles involving a fair bit of math, stats, programming and software development. The technical standards expected in these jobs are not very different from what would be required at a tech company such as Amazon, in the first few years of someone's career. Many quant roles in fact, require technical proficiency of a level which are often higher than that of top tech companies. Many managers used to simply ignore the resumes of those who had cited half a dozen worthless extra curriculars as a way to mask a low GPA. I remember some hiring managers being appalled by the inability of some students to answer even basic questions related to programming. Consulting is the only high paying sector which doesn't really care much about your tech skills, but there's not much of a chance that they'll be amused with a low GPA.Prashanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04165159647365100216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-43737018067639864182015-07-06T00:53:13.148+05:302015-07-06T00:53:13.148+05:30@Anonymous, please contact me on my email with you...@Anonymous, please contact me on my email with your options, in particular which is your home state and you may be able to get decent options in your home state NIT, and we can discuss your options offline. My email is sanghi [AT] gmail.com<br />(replace [AT] by '@')<br />At 9K rank, there must be options available.Dheeraj Sanghihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06367519409840642182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-45189481034466215372015-07-06T00:48:40.648+05:302015-07-06T00:48:40.648+05:30Sir, I am in a position where I would not be able ...Sir, I am in a position where I would not be able to get a seat at iiitd but would get one at dtu (jee main rank is 9k and i am a non delhi student) After reading about this hot topic on quora, I am really scared . I would not like a situation where after doing 4 years of engineering I realize that I do not have the skills required simply because of the quality of the faculty of my college. Most dtu students tell me that you'll learn SELF STUDY in the first semester itself. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of getting a degree if I have to learn all by myself. In such a situation what should I do . What other options do i have given that I am interested in electronics. Also i believe if things go on at this rate even in the placements department iiitd will march ahead of the others in a few years time ( even though this is not a very good criteria to compare colleges)<br />Sir please help me on thisArihanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06807921743141618404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-57084776151476488512015-07-05T23:10:35.262+05:302015-07-05T23:10:35.262+05:30Dear Prabha, I would fully agree with you that the...Dear Prabha, I would fully agree with you that there can be multiple definitions of quality. But the issue that I am referring to, there is unanimity on both sides which is better quality education, and the argument is only whether quality of education should be a parameter at all in deciding the college, and whether the quality of education at all has any impact on future career. And I can only express my surprise and dismay when one says "I agree that college A has better quality of education, but that has no impact on careers." I think when one says that, one is playing lottery. But then lottery has been a legal business for as long as the humankind has existed.Dheeraj Sanghihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06367519409840642182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-58177284975736014892015-07-05T23:04:33.931+05:302015-07-05T23:04:33.931+05:30"And there you would find that graduates of c..."And there you would find that graduates of colleges with good quality of education do exceedingly well." yes this are the quality colleges what you call as colleges of lottery. <br />Another thing IIIT Delhi only can not be taken as bench mark for quality of education.<br />It is the parents students will decide which is quality college and the way they decide might be a better method. This way things were going on years.ie.. like comparing the placement of colleges, student chooses them. You need a opening to enter some where. Every one of LMNIT may not get a chance of what you referred as LMNIT man. You can surely take for this one LMNIT man there are 100 from lottery colleges in the company earning more than him.(ie at the time of joining). Which is a better probability for job students are choosing them. Ascertaining quality of college is very difficult. After 4 years where this quality colleges, lottery colleges will stand no body knows.prabhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14832930269084501833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-52392143926309641462015-07-05T22:04:53.436+05:302015-07-05T22:04:53.436+05:30@Siddharth, I would tend to disagree. Yes, there a...@Siddharth, I would tend to disagree. Yes, there are jobs in finance, consultancy, and other such fields where you don't need much of your technical background. But today, the largest number of 50+ lakh jobs are in technical fields (and remember I am only talking in the context of IT graduates). So google, facebook, microsoft recruiting for their US office, for example. Also, even the non-technical jobs require skills such as analysis, and problem solving, which you hone by sitting through those courses (but only if the instructor was not just giving you a series of information, and ask you to recall that information in the test). So, even non-technical jobs will be done better by people who have done good academics in whatever discipline. Indeed, if you look at who gets these jobs, one finds that usually low CPI graduates don't get these jobs.<br /><br />I understand that students of any college would like brainwash potential students about joining them. If they think that their college is great, then of course, they will do it with pride, they would want as many people to apply to their college so that only the best (like them) join the college. And if students are unhappy with the college, they would not still tell others not to join, because that would be admitting their own mistake of joining a bad college. But I would have hoped that since parents are involved in a big way in decision making in India, and they are more experienced, they perhaps would not fall for such brainwashing. But I find that even highly educated parents are falling for this line.<br /><br />Also, there is an extreme view here compared to IITB. At least in IITB, they are saying that academics is great in all disciplines, and then saying that you will do a job outside the discipline, and hence discipline does not matter. Here they are saying that academics is very poor in my college and poor academics is being sold as a virtue. I could not imagine before yesterday that someone will actually buy poor academics as a virtue.<br />Dheeraj Sanghihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06367519409840642182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-77867919228115004092015-07-05T21:48:27.497+05:302015-07-05T21:48:27.497+05:30Very well said points sir. But the problem is that...Very well said points sir. But the problem is that majority of engineering graduates are working in jobs which actually don't need 1% of the academic knowledge they gained during engineering and people in general rate those jobs as better than the conventional engineering jobs. This is the reason I feel such answers find takers. I remember that during my internship after 3rd year in 2007 I was staying in IIT Bombay campus and at that time people who were coming for counselling process and asking advice of IIT B students, many of the students did complete mind washing saying that join any course @IIT B but don't opt for other IIT's as they have the maximum number of exclusive consultancy firms coming for hiring and you cant get such jobs elsewhere.Just think of a common parent who didn't had much idea of all such things being (mis)guided in this style.Siddharth Jainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11247226392748180538noreply@blogger.com