tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post5189930662356686072..comments2024-03-27T14:43:28.040+05:30Comments on Musings of Dheeraj Sanghi: OROP: Monetizing RespectDheeraj Sanghihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06367519409840642182noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-23664515744563567612015-08-31T09:17:57.220+05:302015-08-31T09:17:57.220+05:30dear @ms, pl. do read the 3rd pay commission repor...dear @ms, pl. do read the 3rd pay commission report, I suspect you have not. Volume 3 of the report contains the armed forces segment and it explains why with the introduction of gratuity on par with civilians, the pensions also will go on par with civilians (after accounting for the lump sum value of the gratuity). The formula also is not a flat change from 75 % to 50 % and neither is the formula a constant 33 years service - there is lot more structure and reasoning given. Like all pay commission reports, there is lot of reasoning given along with lot of data. Coming back to the present, there is an issue with military pensions in that retirees draw pension for many years and hence there is some erosion of the pension value. This can be compensated by other means (like redoing the old age triggered pension increase 20% at age 80 etc into years-pension-drawn trigger 20% at 20 years etc).iitmsriramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16063826764366606345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-50913283155360695832015-08-30T10:27:07.611+05:302015-08-30T10:27:07.611+05:30Sir, armed forces veterans are not acting like tra...Sir, armed forces veterans are not acting like trade unions. Govwrment is acting like one and using words like negotiation etc to make justified already approved demand like a demand being negotiated. mshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07470344462869769043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-49528773264431556482015-08-30T08:03:31.956+05:302015-08-30T08:03:31.956+05:30@ms, May be one day I should read the 3rd pay comm...@ms, May be one day I should read the 3rd pay commission report and understand their reasons for reducing the pension. But without the benefit of their logic, I can at least ask a few questions. Should a pay commission have a right to reduce the compensation package (for new recruits only) or not. Should a pay commission have a right to redraw the parities. If you disagree with those rights, then essentially you are arguing that whatever British did in terms of relative pays, we must maintain that relativity for all times to come. And this, by the way, would be absolutely great for my profession too. Britishers had pay scales wherein those positions which were largely occupied by Britishers were paid hugely. So armed forces officers, and university vice chancellors were rich. If we were to have that pay parity today, a VC in a university would be getting more than a crore of salary.<br /><br />For civilian employees too, the pension benefits have been severely curtailed for those who have joined since 2004. By your argument, that is injustice and must be fought.<br /><br />By your argument, the pay commission should simply come up with a factor by which everyone's income/pension should go up maintaining century old parities, and ignore market, ignore technology development, ignore changes in working conditions, ignore current requirements, etc.<br /><br />But of course, I have already agreed in my article that one solution may be to have one of the members of pay commission from defense. Perhaps even a separate pay commission. Though I must quickly add that every profession would argue that they have peculiarities which the pay commission for a large government fails to capture. Should we have a large pay commission. Should we have multiple pay commissions. These are questions to be thought over.<br /><br />And I am glad that you agree that armed forces veterans are acting like trade unions.Dheeraj Sanghihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06367519409840642182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-80559881752781387852015-08-30T07:40:42.862+05:302015-08-30T07:40:42.862+05:30Sir. I think u have got it wrong. If pay commissio...Sir. I think u have got it wrong. If pay commissions were that capable and fair, why would pension of soldiers be reduced from 75% to 50% in third pay commission. Also that came with rider of 33 years service which was a clause for civilians and as a result pension for defence personnel works out even less than 50%. Though some weight age for years of service was added for different ranks but it still could not reach 33 years and hence less than 50% pension. If pay commissions and governments doing such wonderful jobs then there should not be requirement of any employee unions. Everyone should be kindly accept their recommendations. Service personnel have always believed the government to look after their welfare but look what it had been doing. Goverent fights for every case till supreme court against defence people. Defence civilians have been extended all the privileges of defence persons without being accountable or facing hardships of defence people. Everyone wants to equate with defence on anything howevercsmall which is being given to defence due to peculiar service conditions but defence service personnel are being degraded in status as well as monetarily. Pray check how many orders for improvement in service conditions have been issued in last ten years by defence ministry and compare with civilian dopt. May be ratio will be 100:1 in favor of dopt. <br />Why do not we have a separate pay commission for defence if pay commissions are the panacea for all the ills. <br />No one is monetizing respect. Non fin upgradation has been given to group A officers by which all will at least get joint Secretary and most of them will get additional secretary pay and pension. This has not been extended to defence forces as these are not considered group A services. This is supposedly for restricted career progrssion. Worst progrssion is available in defence yet it is not made applicable for defence forces. What are defence services then. Then why have common pay commission. <br />Koshiyari committee accepted OROP after listening to negative arguments of the same class of bureaucrats who firm part of pay commissions. <br />Let us understand the real issue. It is not money. Why retired soldiers have to resort to what they are doing that needs to be understood. <br /><br /><br />mshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07470344462869769043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-44364766877881319412015-08-29T21:09:24.994+05:302015-08-29T21:09:24.994+05:30One of the reasons of things not moving forward is...One of the reasons of things not moving forward is veterans want to review the pension plan or package annually, however, on the other hand goverment wants to do this every 5 years.payashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10462273978790325663noreply@blogger.com