tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post2030432779209839739..comments2024-03-18T13:45:46.071+05:30Comments on Musings of Dheeraj Sanghi: JEE 2013: Normalizing Board MarksDheeraj Sanghihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06367519409840642182noreply@blogger.comBlogger205125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-1913508624366348012015-10-27T23:46:42.134+05:302015-10-27T23:46:42.134+05:30Since the topic is under discussion by various pan...Since the topic is under discussion by various panels now and the NITs and IITs would have witnessed the experience, its time that this topic is reopened to guide the law makers on exactly what would be an optimum solution to keep up the morale of students on admission to these institutions.<br /><br />I am also not against consideration of board marks for engineering admissions. But the method they are adopting for ranking is too punishing for students with higher order thinking skills, i.e., who score well in JEE. <br /><br />For example say the top 10000 students in any board score between 95%(10000th rank) to 98%(1st rank). Among these 10000 students I dont think there is any major difference in knowledge level.<br /><br />But the same top 10000 students in JEE mains score between 210(10000th rank) to 355(1st rank) out of 360. There is a huge difference between the one who scored 210 and the one who scored 355. This difference is in the application of knowledge, which is very important for his success as an engineer through premier institutions. <br /><br />Let us consider two students A & B who perfom just opposite in board and jee.<br /><br />As per existing nomalisation procedure, student A who scored 98% in board is given 355 marks for the 40% weightage (because he is number 1 in board). If he had scored, say 210 marks in JEE, he is ranked with (0.40*355)+(0.60*210) = 268 marks, rank ~2000.<br /><br />student B who scored 95% in board is given only 210 marks for the 40% weightage (equivalent jee score adopted in normalisation procedure). If he had scored 355 marks in JEE, he is ranked with (0.40*210)+(0.60*355) = 297 marks ~500 rank.<br /><br />That is, based on JEE their rank difference was 10000, but based on normalisation their rank difference is reduced to just 1500. That means a small difference (3%) in board marks %age can cause 85% effect on overall ranking.<br /><br /> So it is NOT just 40% effect.Govinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13591805614249909090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-81189420639093553672014-08-23T15:26:50.422+05:302014-08-23T15:26:50.422+05:30Very interesting. I am the father of two sons who ...Very interesting. I am the father of two sons who have no interest in IIT or engineering. However, they want to study economics at Delhi University. The converse situation exists there. Cut-offs are used irrespective of the board that one comes from. This entire blog clearly accepts one reality -- that boards are different in the scope of difficulty. Then the question is how many thousands of deserving students where left behind by DU and other colleges that refuse to believe that boards differ in difficulty? Has anyone ever raised a legal challenge on this matter or are these debates and discussions limited to IITs where a very small % of India's talent will ever go to or aspire to?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08819856800227574255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-6681606019904109042014-02-26T09:35:22.323+05:302014-02-26T09:35:22.323+05:30Normalisation process is fine but
the weightage n...Normalisation process is fine but <br />the weightage numbers 0.6 and 0.4 should be decided based on degree of difficulty. <br />E.g. Out of 14 Lacs students appearing for JEE Main <br />How many students score more than 90% in board--> 40,000 <br /><br />How many students score more than 90% in JEE Main--> 400 (may be less)<br /><br />This proves JEE Main is 100 times difficult exam and weightage should be 0.99 for JEE <br />And 0.01 for Board Pradyumna Agashehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10300531209692781145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-28471831696215698762013-11-04T13:33:34.235+05:302013-11-04T13:33:34.235+05:30These new changes to JEE exam of 50 years history ...These new changes to JEE exam of 50 years history are completely political. I see a clear analogy between percentage allocations for backward and rich Communities And reservations across the weak and stronger boards. Any how , one more action by the parliament to degrade the IIt system also. Jai ho Bharatరౌతు విజయకృష్ణhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14731724412829160474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-6877421302223106452013-06-21T01:43:22.946+05:302013-06-21T01:43:22.946+05:30I have gone over all the 200 comments.
@Vinod Kum...I have gone over all the 200 comments.<br /><br />@Vinod Kumar Sharma proposed that anyone getting greater than 99.75 percentile in boards should be mapped to 99.75 percentile in JEE. The problem with this is twofold. One, the number 99.75 needs a better mathematical explanation. Two, the issue of long tail distribution affects many more than 0.25 percent.<br /><br />Several persons have alluded to some decision last year according to which the formula was to be 0.6*percentage marks in JEE Mains + 0.4 * Percentile in Board.<br /><br />I have never seen this decision. Even now, if someone can find out such a decision, I am sure it can be discussed, or it can be taken to a court. But, no one on this blog has been able to point out the exact document which said this. The formula was really something that Prof. Barua was trying to push. Of course, he being a Director, and a member of IIT Council, a large number of students and parents may have believed that that was accepted, but it was not.<br /><br />There are two problems with this formula. One, as Prof. Barua himself says that this will give such a small weight to the board marks that its impact will be just the choice of branch within an institute. Would that be equivalent to giving 40% weight. Many persons have criticized the JIG formula as giving huge weight to board marks. Is the solution to deny any weight to board marks. Also, the debate last year was that the weight should be such that students have an incentive to study for boards. Such a formula gives zero incentive to study for board, since studying for JEE and getting a few more marks as a result would be so much more efficient thing to do than to invest that much time in board exams. Prof. Barua will have to decide whether he wants a system where there is an incentive to study for the board, or he wants a system where there is no incentive.<br /><br />The second problem with this formula is that it is based on the assumption that all boards are equal. That is an assumption which is so absurd that I really do not even wish to comment upon it. I had written enough about it last year.<br /><br />@Sanjeev has suggested a mapping of marks from other boards to CBSE, but it is effectively same as taking percentile. Hence the discussion above applies to his proposal as well. @Ak_amazing has also suggested a scheme which is just a rehash of percentiles. @Seshagiri has suggested a formula which is also equating all boards.<br /><br />The process suggested by @Sunil Kumar Chillkuru will aggravate the effect of long tail, not reduce it.<br /><br />There are some suggestions on dividing seats into 2012 and 2013 students, and also having some seats (40%) filled only on the basis of normalized board marks, and other seats (60%) filled in only on the basis of JEE marks. I have no issues if NITs and other universities (including state and private) deciding how they will do their admissions.<br /><br />Considering only 3 or 4 papers in the board as some including @Yashpal has suggested does not make any impact on the long tail distribution of JEE Mains.<br /><br />So in over 5 weeks and 200 comments, there is no suggestion which I would consider as better than the one which JIG has come up with. This statement does not mean that there can not be a better proposal. This does not mean that the proposed model has no flaws.<br /><br />The primary problem with the model that has been articulated by giving so many examples is that a mapping is being made from one distribution (board marks) to another (JEE marks) when these two distributions are so completely different. As I said in my blog, this is something that a fairly large number of statisticians came up with, and I personally just accepted their recommendation.<br /><br />I suspect that it is too late to do anything for 2013. But if someone came up with a better system, I will circulate it so that we can have a better system in 2014.Dheeraj Sanghihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06367519409840642182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-33254604188056778082013-06-17T20:35:18.327+05:302013-06-17T20:35:18.327+05:30I feel that there should be a balance in this thre...I feel that there should be a balance in this thread and there has to be some representation of those students who have done well in Board exams also. I would say that the normalization formula given this year is correct, since<br /><br />- Any number makes sense only if it is brought to the baseline score against which it is measured. In this case the JEE (Mains) percentile score is the target baseline. So, any percentile number from Board makes sense only if it is brought to the JEE (Mains) baseline. Any other method will result in comparing apples and oranges. <br /><br />- In such conversions due to the fact that percentiles and marks may have different gradients in different systems, the difference in score may not exactly be equal to the difference in percentiles in all the gradients.<br /><br />- I see many remarks here insulting all the Boards and says that the JEE (Mains) is the only right way of measurement.These comments are a disservice to all the teachers who have been striving very hard to make sure that their students come out in the top and to all the students who have meticulously followed up with great commitment their +2 curriculam. <br /><br />- To say that a percentile differences in Board examination is just a matter of chance is ridiculous. In such a case, looks the only thing that matters is students cramming up the courses from coaching centres. What about those students who may have done very well in their Boards, but may not have done well due to some reason on the day of JEE (Mains). If the performance over an year in the Board is a matter of chance, is their performance in a single day in JEE (Mains) more so not a matter of chance?Sudharshanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06579732052519928009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-73591402305171208062013-06-17T14:51:17.489+05:302013-06-17T14:51:17.489+05:30Dear SRINIVAS TUMULURI
You are again and again try...Dear SRINIVAS TUMULURI<br />You are again and again trying to deviating from main issue of huge difference in total marks of JEE main due to 1-2% difference in boards marks at higher level 90 to 95% due to normalization process. This is the only issue which should be discussed and some solution and suggestions should be forwarded to the committee. If some one have 93% and other has 95%, Difference of their marks added to jee main for boards result should not be more 2%.<br />I have made suggestion that <br />1 It should be simply percentile*.4 which was initially given. It should not do mapping with JEE main marks'' or <br />2. Using average of all jee marks above the candidate percentile. It will eliminate sharp gaps between jee main marks due to little percentile difference .''<br />Pl. comment on my two suggustions.Saanvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10158754147686548010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-77937472667300533352013-06-17T11:43:24.856+05:302013-06-17T11:43:24.856+05:30A system which is even straing a student scoring a...A system which is even straing a student scoring about 94% in CBSE, and 240 in JEE mains, how can that he called fair, what are we expecting out of a student. Then in that case, why not consider only the board marks for selection into NITs. And what about so may state boards, where mass copying is rampantly prevelant and is a known fact. Knowledge levels of most of the 1st divisioners, which is considered as good, is actually pathetic. Also the rule of the games are fixed before the start of the game, which in this case was 40% weightage of board marks, which is OK. Now when the game is over, one cannot be coming out with new rules then. I have read in some remarks that how is it possible for a student to get good marks in JEE and poor JEE marks. In fact such cases are low, I want to ask why so many students getting really high in boards exams are performing pathetically in JEE mains. I also feel courts intervention could only provide respite against such a draconian formula.RKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16680896821446320673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-44412485585915648742013-06-17T11:27:29.238+05:302013-06-17T11:27:29.238+05:30Let all of us keep in mind that the normalization ...Let all of us keep in mind that the normalization formula has been arrived at by a committee comprising of distinguished academicians who have been entrusted with the job of coming out with an acceptable formula for the current year. It would not be out of place here to mention that these members are absolutely apolitical and are of great reputation who have the interests of Indian technical education at heart. Mind you, we are not talking here whether board marks should be considered in the first place. The decision of giving weightage to the board marks is of the Executive/Government. It is not the correct forum to discuss that. That having been decided, the role of the committee is just to come out with a normalization formula nearer to perfection given the set of rules and regulations. It is unfortunate that certain mathematical geniuses(Pun intended for @Yogendra Sharma) are trying to prove the committee wrong. The basic assumption which he and some bloggers are making is that, they are all approaching the issue with a mindset that JEE(Mains) marks should be the benchmark.<br /> For example, see the comment below of Shri Yogendra Sharma quote : “I would also like to request the committee to kindly look into the mains marks of all students getting more than 95% in the board exams of Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh board and then decide on the volume of errors. I have read else where in different sites about students from these boards asking what their rank will be, they mostly have low mains mark and around 97-98 %.”. unquote . <br />Such comments are undesirable. Is it to state that JEE(Mains) examination is the ultimate and all should be analyzed vis-à-vis their performance in this exam? If that is the case, then it is also equally true that many people who scored well in TN or AP boards did not do well in JEE(Mains) for the same reasons as cited and should be benchmarked accordingly. If we argue that, let the Hon’ Court take this point also into cognizance and reduce the weightage for JEE(Mains)? On the contrary, students who scored excellently well in JEE(Mains) and have fared poorly in Boads are most probably products of coaching institutes and are privileged. It is really ununderstandable that why a normal student who scored well in JEE fails to score well in Boards, given that Board exams are that much more simpler. Just as @Yogendra Sharma has stated, I am also aware of many people who scored exceedingly well in Both JEE(Mains) and Boards. This is especially true in AP from where the bulk of the rankers hail from, with or without normalization. Statistics of last year prove this point beyond any doubt. This year also I know of many people who scored very well in both . Infact, the number of students who did not score well in Boards but scored well in JEE(Mians) is very little. Agreed that many boards are yet to evolve. The solution to the issue is that Board exams also should be made objective and a little tougher. This will probably reduce the evaluation errors and subjectivity. Having said that, in a country of our size and diversity, it is almost impossible to come out with a formula that is acceptable to all and unacceptable to none. To end the arguments, such a hue and cry is unwarranted. The purpose would be better served by fighting against the state quotas and to make board exams more logical. Individual grievances should not form the basis for stalling the entire process with a meandering legal wrangle putting the future of so many at risk. Many students who did well in JEE(Mains) have also done very well in Boards and most likely would get into the NITs. Let us wish them all the best for these kids. It is highly unlikely that these distinguished academicians have committed a mistake, given the complexity.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08606886005965663877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-83849306117913728612013-06-17T10:14:39.688+05:302013-06-17T10:14:39.688+05:30 @ Yogendra Sharma
The intermediate education in ... @ Yogendra Sharma <br />The intermediate education in A.P is totally controlled by a couple of so called corporate colleges.Leaking question papers in the name of suggestions,invigilator assissted copying and malpractice in all possible formats is inflating the marks of the studnts.I know hundreds of students students with 97%-98% in board but only 80-95 in JEE Main.At the same time there are many students mostly from rural and non-corporate college back ground with 85-90% in board but very good score 180-250) in JEE Main.santanudeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09946473025432487059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-10870230935192958922013-06-17T10:13:25.157+05:302013-06-17T10:13:25.157+05:30The Final Nail,
Consider a case where we have 1000...The Final Nail,<br />Consider a case where we have 1000 students getting 200 to 250 marks in mains, this is a very possible case, say out of these 1000 students 300 fall in the 97-99 percentile and the rest fall in the 90 to 96 percentile group absolutely possible. lets call this Group 1 <br />Now also consider a case of another 1000 students getting 120 marks in mains(could have taken 113 but the decimal points bother me) and from this group of students say 100 students get in the 97 t0 99 group (absolutely possible figure in TN and AP) lets call this Group 2<br />Normalised marks of group 1<br />250x0.6= 150 board percentile 96th probably links to 130 marks in all India and state (tough I have a feeling state marks will be less) so for sake of discussion lets say 120+130=250<br />250/2=125, 125x0.4=50<br />150+50=200 for 700 student who got 250 marks in JEE Mains.<br />Normalised marks of group 2<br />120x0.6=72 board percentile 97th equivalent to 325 marks lump sum<br />325x0.4=130<br />130+72=202 for 100 student who gets 120 marks in JEE Mains.<br />So 700 deserving students are out ranked by 100 not so deserving students, the reason I say this is the board marks of the group 1 people if compared with group 2 will show that in maximum number of cases the PCM marks of group one will be better, so group one students are more deserving to be in Engineering.<br />If the simple 60 /40 is used, such cases wont crop up, I still maintain that there is cheating in all boards, there is laxity in all boards, there is marks buying and selling in all boards, there is political pressures in all boards and there are deserving and good students in all boards, Normalise the maximum marks to 100 marks across all boards and solve the problem before some poor child who has 250/360 and 90% takes his/her own life.Yogendrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00382178609024835949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-32141285672083012462013-06-17T07:58:25.183+05:302013-06-17T07:58:25.183+05:30@Dheeraj Sanghi
I request you to not close commen...@Dheeraj Sanghi<br /><br />I request you to not close comments on this blog. This debate is going to be even hotter after ranks of JEE Mains are out on 7th July.Some of the persons continue to believe that anomaly occurs for isolated examples cited whereas any discerning person can see the curves and say that it is applicable on the whole top percentile range.<br />Actually for the benefit of new debaters this blog should continue to be posted on the opening page instead of hiding it in "older Posts".<br />Shishirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12686042339392847975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-54162226930262965562013-06-17T05:39:21.265+05:302013-06-17T05:39:21.265+05:30I would also like to request the committee to kind...I would also like to request the committee to kindly look into the mains marks of all students getting more than 95% in the board exams of Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh board<br />and then decide on the volume of errors. I have read else where in different sites about students from these boards asking what their rank will be, they mostly have low mains mark and around 97-98 %.Yogendrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00382178609024835949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-5059024861476604782013-06-16T21:58:15.794+05:302013-06-16T21:58:15.794+05:30Dear sir,
1. First of all this novel normalization...Dear sir,<br />1. First of all this novel normalization formula for 40% weight age board marks announced on 13th may 2013 i.e. after completion of both JEE main exam 2013 (held on 7th April 2013) and class XII Board exam which is completely injustice to the students aspiring for NIT.<br />2. In this novel formula one student board percentile shall be normalized to same percentile JEE main percentile which is the score of some other student. The normalization should be with my own score/marks/percentile but my board weight age 40% should not be normalized with someone else mark/score/percentile in JEE main.<br />3. The two exam i.e. JEE main and board exams are entirely different. And hence board percentile should not be normalized with JEE main percentile.<br />4. Take one example for academic interest: Rank 1 i.e.100%ile in last Year AIEEE was 343 marks. Rank 2800 at 270 marks., with 99.98%. This means that at the top there is a difference of 73 marks in JEE Mains for a meager %ile diff of only 0.2. For similar %ile diff in Board the diff in marks would hardly be 4-5 marks. So how badly a student X at 99.98 %ile would be hit because of this unmatched transplantation vis-à-vis student Y at 100%ile in Board. This huge amplification occurs for top 3%ile which matters for NITs.<br /><br />5.Compare first Top 1000 rank students on the basis of JEE main 2013 score and after applying normalization of 40% board wightage. Put them side by side and now compare their rank after normalization with the rank on the basis of JEE main 2013 score and see the unexpected change in the rank with only 40% board weightage. You will appreciate that instead of 40% weightage of board , actually it is more than 300% weightage in favour of board.<br />6. : Take another example for academic interest: If a student scores 95%, just 2% more than his friend who gets 93% in the Board it would mean he has scored 10 extra marks (CBSE: 5 subjects each for maximum marks 100). But this two per cent marks will be resulting into a big difference in JEE marks mapping, which won't be uniformly distributed. <br /><br />For instance, a student X scored 345/360 in JEE (mains) and 90% in CBSE class XII. Let's make a fair assumption that these marks of 90% will probably correspond to about 93 percentile in the boards. Now, If there are 14 lakh student giving JEE (Main), this student will be allotted marks equivalent to 93 percentile of the JEE (Main) ranks. The official cut-off declared for JEE (Advanced) is 113 with a rank of 75,000 for general category. Probably this year 93 percentile in JEE (Main) would correspond to about 98,000 rank (7% of 14 lakh applicants) and corresponding marks would be well below 113 only, which is below the cutoff list. So X may get ultimate marks of =0.6x345+0.2x105+ 0.2x 105=207+21+21=249<br /><br />Now if a student Y scored 200/360 in JEE (Main) and 97.5% in boards then probably he is at 99.98 percentile and corresponding to this he may get 330 marks in JEE (Main). Then ultimately Y may get final marks of =0.6x200+0.2x330+0.2*320=120+66+64= 250. What a pity! JEE (mains) exam is much much tougher than CBSE XII Board, still in spite of scoring 145 marks more in JEE mains but because of lower % in CBSE/Board may create such havoc i.e. weightage of Board exam is 200% instead of 40%.<br />My suggestion is as mentioned below; 40% weightage of board should be 0.4x board normalized percentile x3.6. a constant 3.6 is to be considered to bring full marks 360 at per with full marks of JEE. An example for academic interest is as mentioned below: a student got 94 percentile in board and 250 marks in JEE MAIN. After applying normalization formula OF 60-40%( JEE main- Boart), the normalized score of the student will be 0.6x250+ 0.4x99x3.6= 150+142.56=292.56. <br /><br /><br />Sir, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to express my feelings and concern. sir. I hope you will take up this with appropriate authority before it implementation. regards, roy.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04244790351503719736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-77676844910631445762013-06-16T21:41:56.216+05:302013-06-16T21:41:56.216+05:30@ Prof Barua
It is not the question of who is rig...@ Prof Barua<br /><br />It is not the question of who is right or who is wrong...rather the question should be what is right or what is wrong.If you feel the present system of board marks normalization is improper then try to do something.santanudeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09946473025432487059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-7684361969707829382013-06-16T19:32:10.474+05:302013-06-16T19:32:10.474+05:30Dear Srinivas
There is lot of real time examples o...Dear Srinivas<br />There is lot of real time examples of sharp difference in board exam and Jee main marks. Moreover subject other than PCM like Physical Education which generally do not have any marking scheme from boards is being marked by examiner differently. I have a real example where copies of continues 36 students having less than 75 marks while that have high marks in other subjects, rest of students having marks between 85-98 in the same school. It is happening in the other school also. So giving undue weightage to board marks is unjustified.<br />Moreover, Present rules for normalization is giving undue advantage to boards marks. 1% difference at top level in boards marks is giving huge difference of marks in total jee main marks.<br />I thinks it should be either .4*percentile or <br />it should be calculated Using average of all jee marks above the candidate percentile. It will eliminate sharp gaps between jee main marks due to little percentile difference<br /><br /><br />Saanvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10158754147686548010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-68827096050043096282013-06-16T19:25:02.375+05:302013-06-16T19:25:02.375+05:30Dear Sir, I am sure that the normalization procedu...Dear Sir, I am sure that the normalization procedure must have been arrived at by lot of deliberations and virtual calculations. However, I believe the important factors which may not have been looked at properly are one the examination and valuation method - JEE have adopted computerized valuation, ensuring ZERO error, the CBSE's method of 12th class valuation is manual method, which results in larger extent of human errors which in turn will result in incompetent gets higher marks (I know few live cases of students who struggles to speak or even write proper sentences getting marks above 80% in English). Further, the labor put in by students in JEE is insurmoutable, whereas for the 12th class, to a larger extent memorizing could help you reach 60 to 70% and rest will be contributed through valuations. Hence it is requested that a revisit be done on the normalization procedure and let the deserving students get their dues,even if they score a little less in the 12th, whereas scored well in the JEE Mains.venkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01808314798164323192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-68830544020540557512013-06-16T19:24:39.647+05:302013-06-16T19:24:39.647+05:30SRINIVAS TUMULURI JI
I don't think your unders...SRINIVAS TUMULURI JI<br />I don't think your understand the maths at all, a student at 95th percentile gets about 113 to 120 marks after normalisation and a student at 99th percentile gets 345-350 marks ,according to CBSE 90% equates to 95th percentile, so the rank errors are going to be enormous,<br />a student who gets 200/360 in mains and 98% in boards out ranks a student who gets 345/360 in mains and 90% boards.<br />do you mean to say that 90% of a national board is bad? Now please do the math for all possible cases in between and beyond, this is a blog we cannot be expected to give all the examples possible, but professor Sanghi a computer scientist can write a small program and do the math.<br />The committee have done a very bad job and unnecessarily complicated the matter by taking arbitrary assumptions. <br />the JEE main percentile curve is a very steep curve in the first five percentile group, the board exam curves are bell shaped hence the ranks allotted are going to be 95%errors.<br />and the difference in percentage that is 97% and 90% will mostly be in the English language and the fourth subject.<br />I don't know what your catch is but to say that this committee has done a good job is apple polishing.Yogendrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00382178609024835949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-16353586769431605302013-06-16T12:32:39.871+05:302013-06-16T12:32:39.871+05:30@ rajan kapoor
Sir we would also like to join this...@ rajan kapoor<br />Sir we would also like to join this writ petition.how we can contact you.menghanivijayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09625639999671420988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-82226184435103103302013-06-16T12:29:33.211+05:302013-06-16T12:29:33.211+05:30I agree. From here on can people only post about a...I agree. From here on can people only post about any significant development they are doing/ in the know of in terms of having this formula quashed for this session. <br /><br />From my side:<br />1. Lots of people signed the petition and have written individual mailers to the CBSE Chairman.<br /><br />2. Affected students are trying to get this published in Print Media like HT/TOI and taken up in News Channels. That effort is on. If anyone can contribute it get a wider audience by way of media kindly pitch in. <br /><br />I'm attaching the petition anyways, which has over 450 people now. <br /><br />http://www.change.org/en-IN/petitions/cbse-chairman-vineet-joshi-ias-stop-highly-erroneous-normalization-for-cbse-jee-main-ranking-2013Not yet!https://www.blogger.com/profile/05225518667242435983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-33224110270315735522013-06-16T12:25:31.332+05:302013-06-16T12:25:31.332+05:30I thank Prof Sanghi for the wonderful initiative o...I thank Prof Sanghi for the wonderful initiative of seeking opinions from the public. I am of the firm view that wonderful job has been done by JIG in coming out a well thoughtout Normalization procedure under the circumstances. Some of the bloggers have raised a bogey by articulating extreme cases and genaralizing them.They are only trying stall the entire process quoting these examples. As @sreekanth63 has said very rightly, nobody has talked about injustices like state quotas etc., If we need to find solution to the issue that should be by thinking holistically and not by pointing out cases like someone scoring 345 in JEE(Mains) and 85% in Boards. Everyone agrees these cases are rare.<br /><br />Someone may do a statistical analysis post the anouncement of ranks on this. It is beyond imagination that how someone scoring so high in JEE(Mains) score so little in Boards. If that can happen, the reverse is also equally true.For reasons like some student falling sick on the exam date or affordability of the coaching institutes, hailing from inhospitable regions of the country etc,, can be the reasons. Mere statistical possibilities should not hamper from going ahead with this formula. Instead concentration can be on subjects like making board exams tougher,logical and objective.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08606886005965663877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-74854989633182674992013-06-16T10:49:09.664+05:302013-06-16T10:49:09.664+05:30@dheeraj sir,
thanks a lot. well, after all these...@dheeraj sir, <br />thanks a lot. well, after all these comments and analysis, what one would like to know is, is anything happening on this front from CBSE side and whether the outpouring of emotions (in most of cases supported by reasoning for not adopting the normalisation formula) has had any effect at all..?<br /><br />Some of commentators above highlighting advantage of the present announced formulae seem to have missed the wood for the trees. The issue here is the normalisation formulae and NOT the weightage to the board marks. The weightage had been fixed as 40%(duly normalised) by learned people and committees. It was opposed that boards should not have weightage at all due to many assumptions, presumptions etc.., but that is the thing of the past. A decision was taken and announced in july/august 2012 that boards will have weightage duly normalised. Why is it so hard to comprehend that the present normalisation formulae is not doing that. There has to be a re-visit of the whole exercise and as the time is fast running out (it may be to the advantage of our dear cbse, JIG and statisticians though), it has to be done fast and a way out has to be found out to actually reward the students in the same manner as they have performed in their respective boards and JEE (Main). The mixing of the two (some called it apples and oranges) does not gel by any logic. Whatever way out is found out, it must be ensured that the weightage as pronounced earlies by cbse is retained.<br /><br />thank you very much sir for the opportunity to express our views.. aaahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03806498210995687719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-19480804362126624492013-06-16T09:22:02.542+05:302013-06-16T09:22:02.542+05:30I hope everyone has had a chance to express their ...I hope everyone has had a chance to express their views. I will close comments after 200. This is 183rd comment. So there is still time to get your views in. Please note that I have not allowed certain types of comments. One, those written in SMS type language, or really poor language. Two, those which talk about one's own marks, and ask what rank could he/she expect, or something which is completely irrelevant to the post. Three, which uses a particularly harsh language. I have allowed some outpouring of emotions as you can see on the comments, but a few extreme cases have been denied.<br />Dheeraj Sanghihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06367519409840642182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-31576699491826879752013-06-16T09:12:44.457+05:302013-06-16T09:12:44.457+05:30“All Boards are Equal”
I agree with Prof Barua ,th...“All Boards are Equal”<br />I agree with Prof Barua ,that there is a method in this madness and some vested interests are trying to prove that the old system was better. We know it isn’t, the entrance exam system is a loaded dice in favour of big cities with better coaching Faculty<br />Now to the main point , I request Professors Barua and Sanghi to kindly take up this study urgently and publish the out-come,<br />In your respective institutes please kindly find out the intermediated board of the top ten students in your branch for all semesters a basic database is now created to see the performance of people from different boards, this data base can then be extended to include all branches in your respective institutes, Then we can go and collect the data for all IITs (maximum Twenty telephone calls and twenty emails is all that is needed for you to get the data) A little more effort and Data for top 5 NIT can also be included. There is still enough time to prove that most of the major boards in the country are equal. Data from NCERT should surprise a few. <br />So the assumption that the boards are diverse is not true, what we want is good Institutes getting the best students , All boards teach the same type of curriculum, The question papers if compared will show that Boards use each others questions in different years, <br />Before jumping the Gun and assume I am correct and all boards are equal lets wait for the outcome of this study.Yogendrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00382178609024835949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4273139713770751485.post-6632082195581770092013-06-16T07:24:40.432+05:302013-06-16T07:24:40.432+05:30I am amazed at incoherence of this Government’s Ed...I am amazed at incoherence of this Government’s Education policy. To reduce stress and to end Rat Race of numbers they did away providing marks in 10th clubbing everyone in 90-100% bracket in A1 grades.This was supposed to be followed in 12th also. But now they have done just opposite.<br /><br />It is also amazing that they thought this procedure of 12th marks weightage only to punish Engineering aspirants. Why not in NEET-UG test for Medical. Every Medical aspirant also has to attend Coaching and in fact more than 50% selections are from one single institute of Kota. So why they were spared.<br /><br />And then originally they propose only 60% weight for Jmains and 40% for 12th marks. Anybody wud interpret that if a student X scores 60 marks more than Y in Jmains but 45 marks less in 12th , X should get higher Rank. But the preposterous Normalisation makes 40% of 45 more than 60% of 60 !!!<br /><br />For example for this Year 2013 CBSE top scorer is 99%(495 marks). Being Topper he is 100th percentile in Board and thus will get JEE Mains Topper marks of 345.<br /><br />Student scoring 90%(450 marks) in CBSE Board would be assigned 95th percentile as about 5% students have scored more than 90% in CBSE 12 this year.At this 95th percentile he will get about 120 marks as out of 1400000 applied in Jmains , 95th percentile wud be 70000 rank and we know that 75500 rank was at 113 marks.<br /><br />What above means is that a difference in Board marks of only 45 marks (between 99% and 90%) is being transplanted in JMains as 225 marks (345-120) before application of 0.4 factor.<br />Effectively what should have been a difference of 18 marks (0.4*45) is now diff of 89 marks (0.4*225).<br /><br />One more thing is that actually Difference should have been further scaled down to 18*360/500= 13 marks as the Board numbers are out of total 500 whereas Jmains was of 360 marks. So now actual amplification is from 13 to 89 marks.<br /><br />This is weightage of not 40% but 280% <br /><br /><br />Shishirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12686042339392847975noreply@blogger.com